No but good job on the response from another source. I was going to use
this concept for the SC hookup.
-------------------------------------------
Steven St.Laurent
Test Engineer
Test Branch, GSD, MCTSSA
MARCORSYSCOM, USMC
760-725-2506 (DSN 365-2506)
Work:mailto:stlaurents@mctssa.usmc.mil
Home:mailto:saint1958@home.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald Wong [mailto:ron-wong@home.com]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:37 PM
To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
Subject: RE: DML: Pre Chiller means more HP (long article but worth
it)
Well, luck has been with me today....somewhat. I decided to go to Mike
Leach Co. and show them the articles that Mr. St. Laurent posted regarding
the Prechill Device. Boy, talk about Pandora's box (watch it guys). You
think I start things up here on the list. The first thing that came up was
Bruce's new billet throttle body. Nice piece of workmanship! It will
definitely be worth it. $450 no core exchange. Flowing at 750 cfm, I
believe. Pretty, pretty..okay, gotta wait because they're trying to get
CARB numbers on it. I was trying to take it and put it on my truck but
Mike saw me. <drat> <j/k Bruce>
So anyways, I bring up this paper from here about the prechiller. One of
the Viper owners that the thing is being tested on is sitting right next to
me and I didn't even know it. When he said it was his Viper I laughed,
thought he was kidding. Then, he started explaining the concept. I shut
up.
Basically, what Gary has done is tapped into the existing air conditioning
lines, as far as compressor goes, then he built another condenser and
evaporator that goes into the air intake box. The way he figures it is
this. If it's hot outside and you're gonna turn on the AC anyway, you might
as well feed some of it to the engine. If it's not hot outside then your
ambient temp's going to be lower and you won't realize as much gain anyway
so if the AC isn't on, not as big of a deal.
That's when the arguments started. Tom Fox, being an AC expert, said the
parasitic losses from the compressor will more than offset the gains. But I
said, what are the parasitic losses from the AC when running in extreme
temperature conditions? He said 20 hp, maybe higher. Then, I said, but the
numbers show a 60 hp gain on a stock Viper from a prechiller....and besides,
if I'm going to have the AC on anyway because it's a 120º outside, then I'll
have a net gain no matter how you look at it.
That about ended it. Everyone was either hungry or had things to do so the
discussion ended for now....until I go to the SEMA show and talk directly to
the horse. By the way, has anyone measured parasitic loss due to the AC
compressor at various ambient temperatures.
Ron
00 SLT QC 4X2 5.9 46RE 3.92 LSD
For modifications see my DML Profile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net
[mailto:owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net]On Behalf Of bernd@texas.net
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 7:07 AM
To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: DML: Pre Chiller means more HP (long article but worth it)
100% correct. From what i've found out, our Mopar engines make the best HP
around 180-185 degrees. Anything colder than 170 and the HP starts to fall
off
and (obviously) anything above 195 is about the same drop.
- Bernd
> Only to a point.
>
> Ron
> 00 SLT QC 4X2 5.9 46RE 3.92 LSD
> For modifications see my DML Profile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net
> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net]On Behalf Of Stlaurent Mr Steven
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 11:16 AM
> To: 'dakota-truck@buffnet.net'
> Subject: DML: RE: RE: RE: RE: Pre Chiller means more HP (long article
> but worth it)
>
>
> What about the fuel delivery and water through a AC unit???? A cooler
motor
> means more HP.
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Steven St.Laurent
> Test Engineer
> Test Branch, GSD, MCTSSA
> MARCORSYSCOM, USMC
> 760-725-2506 (DSN 365-2506)
> Work:mailto:stlaurents@mctssa.usmc.mil
> Home:mailto:saint1958@home.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald Wong [mailto:ron-wong@home.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 10:49 AM
> To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
> Subject: DML: RE: RE: RE: Pre Chiller means more HP (long article
> but worth it)
>
> Yes, they are gearing up. I just talked to their manufacturing facility
> which is by Magic Mountain. Gary Bethurem is out of town this week but
will
> be at SEMA next week for the launch of the pre-chiller. Nobody knows cost
> yet because they're still tooling but all the hand-made ones for the Viper
> have been spoken for and they are at least 30 days backlogged already. I
> will be at SEMA so will make every attempt to speak to Mr. Bethurem about
> his product. It looks like at least a 15% improvement with the
pre-chiller.
> Man, what a concept...it was my idea too, dammit, only I was going to
route
> my AC pipe into my intake. Jim Frazier, at PFM's sister site, told me
> basically that's what Gary did, created a separate AC unit for the engine.
>
> Ron
> 00 SLT QC 4X2 5.9 46RE 3.92 LSD
> For modifications see my DML Profile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net
> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net]On Behalf Of Stlaurent Mr Steven
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 10:02 AM
> To: 'dakota-truck@buffnet.net'
> Subject: DML: RE: RE: Pre Chiller means more HP (long article but worth
> it)
>
>
> Yea! And it's in your neighborhood. I already sent an e-mail asking for
> products for the Dakota (since they are making one for the Viper) and see
if
> they need test vehicles.
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Steven St.Laurent
> Test Engineer
> Test Branch, GSD, MCTSSA
> MARCORSYSCOM, USMC
> 760-725-2506 (DSN 365-2506)
> Work:mailto:stlaurents@mctssa.usmc.mil
> Home:mailto:saint1958@home.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald Wong [mailto:ron-wong@home.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 9:50 AM
> To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
> Subject: DML: RE: Pre Chiller means more HP (long article but worth
> it)
>
> GGRRRRR.....I was thinking of this same concept a couple months ago.
> Remember when we were talking about cold air and what it would take to
make
> more HP? Well, I went and talked to Mike Leach Co. about it and they
said,
> Naaa, it won't work. BS, dammit, though these guys have been working on
it
> for awhile and would have beaten me anyway, still, my concept was good. I
> hate it when someone tells me differently.
>
> Ron
> 00 SLT QC 4X2 5.9 46RE 3.92 LSD
> For modifications see my DML Profile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net
> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net]On Behalf Of Stlaurent Mr Steven
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 9:28 AM
> To: 'dakota-truck@buffnet.net'
> Subject: DML: Pre Cjiller means more HP (long article but worth it)
>
>
> 9/15/00 - New PFM PreChiller PFM Products Inc., a 25 year pioneer in the
> development of marine engine inter-cooling systems, launched the
> revolutionary new, patented, PreChiller to the automotive world during
> DaimlerChrysler Corporations Dodge Viper Invitational in St. Louis,
> Missouri. The PreChiller patented system chills ambient air and disperses
> colder, denser air to the motor resulting in more horsepower. For Full
Press
> Release click: PFM PreChiller Press Release or call Gary Bethurem at
> 805-388-6499.
>
> PFM Products Inc., a 25 year pioneer in the development of marine engine
> inter-cooling systems, launched the revolutionary new, patented,
PreChiller
> to the automotive world during DaimlerChrysler Corporations Dodge Viper
> Invitational in St. Louis, Missouri. The PreChiller patented system chills
> ambient air and disperses colder, denser air to the motor resulting in
more
> horsepower.
>
> In 1998, PFM teamed up with Viper car racer Gary Bethurem to integrate
PFM's
> long history of race boat technology and Bethurem's desire to make his
> racecar go faster. After patenting the new PreChiller, PFM president John
> Pelkey and Bethurem set out to make the finest auto pre-cooler system by
> creating the ultimate challenge for themselves. They believed that if they
> could make the PreChiller work in a large engine racecar, they could adapt
> it easily to production vehicles. In St. Louis last week, two years of
> dedicated effort was rewarded when Bethurem's Viper performed with
dramatic
> results. Each and every trip down the drag strip, the car ran quicker than
> any comparably equipped car. Even more impressive were the Dyno (Mustang
> Dynamometer) test results performed at Paxton Automotive this week in
> Ventura County, California using Bethurem's modified racecar and a stock
> Viper RT.
>
> So impressive were these results that Bethurem was invited to show the
> PreChiller to Hot Rod magazine, sr. editor, Ro McGonegal and publisher,
Brad
> Gerber, who will review the PreChiller in Hot Rod's upcoming issue. Says
> Bethurem, "If we can show this kind of radical difference in horsepower in
a
> large engine race car, just think of what the PreChiller will do for the
> family vehicle whether it's a car, truck, SUV or RV". Pelkey adds, "in an
> era of record gas prices the PreChiller will improve any vehicles engine
> performance dramatically by adding colder and denser air", and "in fact
the
> PreChiller should reduce air polluting emissions which are so damaging to
> our environment."
>
> PFM plans to launch the PreChiller through the Viper car community so that
> it can take advantage of existing molds and because current demand is
> substantially higher than the availability. PFM manufacturing manager,
Ryan
> Pelkey says the company is ramping up for production on availability and
> other models but suggests that it won't happen overnight as the company
> wishes "to continue on its path of perfection, not mass production".
>
> PFM also manufactures the SuperChiller, Gorilla Kit and Total Control
System
> and is located at 12155 Magnolia No. 6, E. Riverside, CA 92503. Click this
> to view PreChiller 9/4/00 Full Press Release and click this to view
> HorsePower Curve Test Results in PDF format.
>
> For additional information including copies of official Dyno Test Results
> call Gary Bethurem at 805-388-6499, Fax to 805-388-6447, visit our website
> at: www.pfmproducts.com or e-mail: garyb@xgearinc.com.
>
> The results of the Dyno were as follows (see the test attached);
>
> Viper Modified Version: (SVSI headers, 70mm throttle bodies, 1.7 ratio
> rocker arms, Borla header back exhaust)
> 1st pass with open throttle bodies;
> A/C (PreChiller) OFF: Rear Wheel Horsepower 477.9
> 2nd pass with open throttle bodies;
> A/C (PreChiller) ON: Rear Wheel Horsepower 511.6
>
>
> Viper RT Stock Version
> 1st pass with open throttle bodies;
> A/C (PreChiller) OFF: Rear Wheel Horsepower 377.2
> 2nd pass with open throttle bodies;
> A/C (PreChiller) ON: Rear Wheel Horsepower 432.1
>
>
> Test day information -
> Time tested (approx.)10 am - 1 pm
> Ambient temperature 881/4
> Relative humidity (approx.) 80%
> Temperature after PreChiller 551/4
>
> At the Pomona Raceway in California, 11.05 @ 128.6 was run with the
> PreChiller. For more information or copies of official Dyno Test Result
> sheets, contact G. Bethurem at (805) 388-6499.
>
> Mustang Dynamometer
> Vehicle Test Results
> Date/Time Printed: 8/31/2000 9:42:24 AM
>
> PAXTON AUTOMOTIVE CORP
> Phone: (805) 604-1336 / Fax (805) 604-1337
> 2146 Eastman Ave.
> Oxnard, Ca 93030
>
> (Test 1, PreChiller off)
>
> Customer: PFM/PreChiller
> License: 3VUA118
> VIN:
> Yr/Mk/Mdl: 1997 GTS Dodge Viper
> Miles: 2000.0
> Weight: 3500.0
> HP@50 MPH: 12.00
> Cyl/Disp: 10/8.0 Liter
> HorsePower Curve Test Results
> Test Run: 8/31/2000 9:40:13 AM
> Max Power: 477.5 @ 5000 RPM
> Max Torque: 500.7 @ 5000 RPM
> Comments:
>
> (Test 2, PreChiller On)
> Customer: PFM/PreChiller
> License: 3VUA118
> VIN:
> Yr/Mk/Mdl: 1997 GTS Dodge Viper
> Miles: 2000.0
> Weight: 3500.0
> HP@50 MPH: 12.00
> Cyl/Disp: 10/8.0 Liter
> HorsePower Curve Test Results
> Test Run: 8/31/2000 9:47:45 AM
> Max Power: 511.6 @ 5500 RPM
> Max Torque: 506.3 @ 5250 RPM
> Comments:
>
>
> (Test 3, PreChiller On)
> Customer: PFM/PreChiller
> License: DLR23281
> VIN:
> Yr/Mk/Mdl: 1999 RT Dodge Viper
> Miles: 2000.0
> Weight: 3500.0
> HP@50 MPH: 12.00
> Cyl/Disp: 10/8.0 Liter
> HorsePower Curve Test Results
> Test Run: 8/31/2000 12:21:31 PM
> Max Power: 432.1 @ 5000 RPM
> Max Torque: 492.5 @ 3750 RPM
> Comments:
>
> (Test 4, PreChiller Off)
> Customer: PFM/PreChiller
> License: DLR23281
> VIN:
> Yr/Mk/Mdl: 1999 RT Dodge Viper
> Miles: 2000.0
> Weight: 3500.0
> HP@50 MPH: 12.00
> Cyl/Disp: 10/8.0 Liter
> HorsePower Curve Test Results
> Test Run: 8/31/2000 12:38:37 AM
> Max Power: 377.2 @ 5000 RPM
> Max Torque: 437.7 @ 3750 RPM
> Comments:
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Steven St.Laurent
> Test Engineer
> Test Branch, GSD, MCTSSA
> MARCORSYSCOM, USMC
> 760-725-2506 (DSN 365-2506)
> Work:mailto:stlaurents@mctssa.usmc.mil
> Home:mailto:saint1958@home.com
>
>
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