I've owned the new Prius hybrid for about 2 months now (over 5Kmi). I'll try to separate fact from fiction without offending. (Key word, try).
>>>People are finding that the claimed EPA mileage isn't even close to reality on their hybrid cars.
Not many cars do. I get 16mpg in my Dak. That's 100% of the low (city) EPA number and 80% of the high (highway) EPA number. In my Prius I get 50mpg. That's 98% of the low (highway) EPA number and 83% of the high (city) EPA number. Wife is a lead foot and gets 47 to 49.
>>>The EPA uses emissions to take a wild guess at the your vehicle's estimated fuel mileage,
Wild Guess? Total fiction, these are laboratory ran on a dyno. see
<http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#estimates>
>>>Dak content: I guess I should really celebrate getting 19 MPG on the
highway now, instead of saying "well it's about time I saw the sticker
mileage on this thing."
Kinda illustrates my first point.
>>>I also read another story of a fire rescue guy that was using the jaws of live to remove someone from a crashed hybrid. It so happens that these big electrical cables run through the doors and top of these cars and when he used the jaws, he was nearly electrocuted!
Urban Legend. The power cables run through the lower half of the car. Also, rescue personnel are well trained to recognize and deal with high voltage cars.
>From an unknown source
"Firefighters around the country, including in South Hampton Roads, have been boning up on the workings of Toyota's Prius and Honda's Civic and Insight hybrids. Moore said that although the potential for injury is there, rescuers who educate themselves about how to work around the technology shouldn't have to worry.
"At this point, it's totally overemphasized as a hazard,'' Moore said. "There is a potential that we never had before, but the engineers on both Honda and Toyota cars have done such a tremendous job of engineering the safety concerns that if we're better educated responders, it will be no big deal."
Changes in vehicle technology are perpetual concerns for firefighters, said Capt. Dennis Keane of the Virginia Beach Fire Department. "Even the firemen in the '50s had concerns about the gas lines in cars,'' he said. "Then there were the airbags and now the hybrid cars.''
Together, they chopped up the first vehicle as if someone were trapped inside.
"We realized there was no cause for overreaction,'' Moore said. "We just cut that thing to shreds and did everything we would have to do in a normal crash scenario.''
The second vehicle was burned to simulate a car fire.
"It was nothing more than a standard vehicle fire with all the snap, crackle and pop,'' Moore said.
But that doesn't mean that firefighters shouldn't keep abreast of the technology as it continues to evolve, he said. "If you become knowledgeable and respect the safety system that those vehicles have, I think we'll be all right."
>>>Did you read the cop out response that the Toyota Spokeperson gave "Federal law requires that auto manufacturers use only EPA estimates when promoting their vehicles' fuel economy, according to Toyota spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell". What a crock of sh!!. Do they expect us to believe that they let the government tell them what they advertise, but If that is true it just gives the public another reason not to believe the government. Maybe the auto manufacturers ought to put a statement below the sticker window mileage
Yes, it's federally mandated. I thought everyone knew that. Isn't this where the term "Your Mileage May Vary" comes from? From my sticker written on the federally mandated part
"Actual Mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition. Test results reported to EPA indicate that the majority of vehicles with these estimates will achieve..." [blah blah blah]
>>>Once again. There are many factors with mileage. And a big factor with those hybrids is the weather they operate in. If it's cold, the engine runs more often to generate heat for the cabin. So if yer in OH during the winter in a hybrid, you aren't going to see good mileage.
Well, not exactly. Batteries aren't as efficient in the cold, so you'll lose a little bit of mileage there (~1mpg). But the engine is running almost anytime the car is in motion, so it has no trouble keeping at operational temperature, i.e. same results in San Diego <http://www.grandroyal.org/dakota>as in Fargo. It does take longer for the engine to warm up in cold weather, leaving you with inefficient operation for a longer period, but this is true for anything with an internal combustion engine.
>>>But I believe they hype hybrid numbers to increase sales....
Well, this is back to the EPA mandated argument. I think the real problem is the form of the EPA test is perfectly suited to the Prius' strengths. I mean ~55mph max speed, lots of idling (where the engine simply turns off), etc. Then the press and other media form are really pushing that 60mpg number, not Toyota. I started talking to dealers before the car went on sale. All the dealers I talked to (at least three) warned me the mileage would likely be more like 50mpg.
>>>One of the issues with the hybirds is they don't give good mileage unless you do a ton of stop and go driving. There is no way they can. The entire design of the drivetrain is based on regenerative braking keeping the batteries charged. If all you do is drive highway miles your mileage is gonna suck, there is no way that it can't the hybird is by its very nature an obese vehicle due to the addition of the lectric motor/generators and the additional batteries. People who use them exclusively for drive it around town in stop and go traffic will do well but no one else!!!
Well, I'm sorry, but there's a lot of ignorance here. The recharge mostly comes from the engine turning the E-motor acting as a generator. Probably only about 20% from the ReGen brakes.
Obese? I guess I would have thought so too, but here's the tell of the tape:
Prius: Curb weight/Passenger+luggage Capacity = 2890lbs/112.3cu.ft.,
Corolla Curb weight/Passenger+luggage Capacity = 2530 to 2670lbs/102.1 to 103.9cu.ft.,
Camery Curb weight/Passenger+luggage = 3086 to 3219lbs/118.4cu.ft.,
It is very true that the Prius gets better mileage in traffic. From Encino to Irvine (~60miles in the famous LA traffic), I got 74mpg, it took 2.5hours. We haven't taken really long trips yet, but the wide open trip out to the desert (200mi @ 75mph) I averaged 47mpg. I wouldn't quite classify 47mpg as "Suck".
Hope that helps. I'm not one who's easily impressed, and my wife is a notorious pessimist. But we are blown away by the value of this car. It's obviously not a cure all to transportation; It's not going to out run too many modern cars and it sure as hell ain't going to haul anything, but I can't imagine a more perfect commuter/road trip car. I strongly suggest trying one. In today's gas prices it's nice to still get 450miles for under a $20 tankful.
BTW, I also recently bought a Geo Metro, for $750. My last fill up yielded 48mpg!!. I find it a little strange that this tread and the "Today's gas prices" tread can coexist.
Jay W
505/287 Dakota
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