At 12:36 AM 7/18/97 -0400, Bob Tufts wrote:
>
>This seems to contradict the info put out by the Pennzoil/FRIGC site, who are
>ditinguishing their product as -NOT- being R134a based. They call FRIGC
"FR12"
>and claim you just remove the old R12, add some new oil and then add FR12.
>Please read http://www.frigc.com/FRinst3.htm for the info from horses mouth.
>(also http://www.frigc.com/FRcons3.htm or start at the top:
http://www.frigc.com)
>
>They further claim compatability with existing R12 lubricants and less
>discharge pressure than R134a (no changing or parts other than fittings).
>Someone also commented on the fact that R12 is still available. It may be,
>but at scalpers prices. Once again, I do not claim to be an AC expert,
>but one would think Pennzoil would stand to face significant
>lawsuits if their claims are false. Please read their info first,
>and then I'd like to hear why their claims should be refuted.
>
>-Bob T.
>
I'm not an expert either, but I'll give it a shot:
First: FRIGC is primarily composed of R134a (ie "a blend") so in the retrofit
scheme of things, a FRIGC retrofit is basically a "stealth" version of
the MVAC industry's example of a low buck R134a retrofit. I viewed the web
pages for FRIGC. Granted, no statements exist stating FRIGC is an "R134a
blend"... but there are also no statements saying its NOT. The subject is
avoided in the pages by stating how its more "compatible" and "less costly"
than R134a, but they never describe what "FR12" is.
Second: Interdynamics developed FRIGC, not Penzoil. Interdynamics did well
by striking an agreement with Pennzoil to "market" FRIGC; thereby making it
available through Penzoil's Jiffy-Lube chain and cornering a good chunk of
market penetration.
Here's a snippet from the FRIGC webpage:
----------------------------------------
"R-134A? It’s EPA accepted, but will your customers pay between
$200 and $1,200 to have their cars retro-fitted so it can be
installed? And even if they do, the cooling properties of R-134A
are no match for those of Freon®."
"For cars built before 1989, R-134A gets even more expensive
since there are no ready-made original equipment manufactured
retro-fit kits available."
"Other alternatives? Some refrigerants may not be EPA accepted.
Others offer the same kind of economy as FRIGC® FR-12™ but,
for the most part, they don’t have proven track records.
And few are available all across the USA."
----------------------------------------
So what does this say?
* An R-134a upgrade could be from $200 to $1200. Its the
$200 that interests me... since that's fairly close to
the cost for a FRIGC upgrade.
* The cooling properties of 134a are no match to those
of Freon? Notice "FREON", not FRIGC! They're not even
comparing R134a cooling properties to FRIGC cooling
properties! Gee, I wonder why?
* Alternatives exist with the same kind of economy as
FRIGC, but the keys are:
- Don't have proven track records? Sure, and like
FRIGC has been in use for decades...?
- Few of the alternatives are available across the US.
That's REALLY the point here... the marketing and
support (ie. "convenience") of FRIGC is its real
strength.
Lastly, a note from GHG:
-------------------------------------------------------
From ghg@worldserver.com
Organization GHG DEV LABS, Inc
Date Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:46:24 -0600
We bought a jug of it and tested it. About 12-15 degrees F warmer
than Autofrost (R-406A), and about 5 deg F warmer than R-134a..
See http://worldserver.com/Autofrost for the reasons and testing.
--ghg, inventor of Autofrost/R-406A/Chillit/R-414A/GHG-HP and GHG-X7
refrigerants
-------------------------------------------------------
Now I'm not trying to say that FRIGC is a joke. It works, and works well
for many vehicles... in the great scheme of things the marketing of a
product frequently determines its success more than its performance. (VHS?
MS-DOS?) The information I've read tells me my vehicle would be cooler
running R406, but what do I do if my AC sprouts a leak and the closest R406
vendor is 300 miles away? Heck, Jiffy Lubes are *everywhere*, so from a
convenience standpoint I might make the educated decision to go the FRIGC
route. Who knows?
My point is that at least it'd be an "educated decision" based on as much
information as I can gather, and not some marketing hype "buy in".
===========================================================
Richard Brown Antelope, Calif.
'70 \6 Challenger Conv. (440 6pak R/T clone in progress)
'92 Dakota 2.5L (Great gas mileage, no power )
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