"Steve D" <01dak@sympatico.ca> wrote:
: From: "Wayne" <blowndakota@yahoo.com>
:> I usually don't reply to these types of posts but
:> these comments made me felt as I must. Saying these
:> types of laws are aimed at the Fast and Furious crowd
:> makes about as much sense as opening up with a sawed
:> off shotgun into a crowded mall and saying you were
:> trying to kill a fly.
: This analogy is hysterical and illogical at best. Actually it's idiotic. No
: offence.
No, actually it is an *excellent* anaolgy of how poorly thought
out legislation can create a negative impact on law abiding citizens.
Please explain why this is not an absolutely perfect analogy for this
situation!
: And a riced out car driven by a testosterone charged 16-25 year old male
: trying to impress somebody is a sawed off shotgun fired in a crowded mall.
: I've seen too many of the aftermaths to believe otherwise.
Nobody is suggesting that these idiots aren't dangerous. However, the
solution to the problem is not dangerous, sweeping legislation.
:>If these so called street
:> racers are causing all this mayhem, why not pass a law
:> against street racing, speeding or reckless driving in
:> general?
: Street racers do cause mayhem. They cause death and horrible injuries. They
: kill themselves (seldomly) and innocent bystanders and in a case last year a
: womans unborn child.
Again, nobody is suggesting these people aren't dangerous. Although I do
not speak for Wayne, I think it is pretty clear that he was simply asking a
rhetorical question here. The question was, why not introduce legislation that
targets the offensive activity directly rather than these silly sweeping laws?
It is a rhetorical question because the answer is that there are *already* laws
against this. If there is a law against a specific activity and that activity
has not stopped, the solution is not more laws against (dubiously) related
activities; the solution is to enforce the existing laws and if necessary,
modify them to increase the penalties.
:>Of course there are already laws against
:> such behavior so more laws will not assist the police
:> in enforcing them.
: Wrong. The present laws on the books in Ontario have no teeth.
So GIVE them teeth! Don't make new laws! Who is to say the new laws will
be any more effective than the old ones?
: Laws aimed at
: people who modify their vehicles for the sole purpose of engaging in street
: racing are needed. We're not talking about vintage cars here. We're not
: talking about people who install CAI's or different spark plugs or blowers
: or who legally mod their cars for better power and performance. We're
: talking about cars built for street racing, of which there are hundreds on
: the road here.
Ok, indulge me - what modifications are done for street racing which are
not also done by enthusiasts looking to increase power or race their street
car at legally sanctioned events? In order to write a law to target these
modifications, the modifications must first be identified.
:>I certainly would not want a law
:> that leaves enforcement up to the discretion of a
:> police officer who may or may not understand the
:> difference between a Hyundai with a chrome tip and a
:> Hemi Cuda.
: All laws are enforced at the descretion of the police. Ultimately cops on
: the street decide wether or not to lay a charge.
: Correct me if I'm wrong but there hasn't been a Hemi Cuda built in 35 years
: and it was a production car so it would be exempt from any laws written
: today. At least in Ontario it would be. I don't know about where you live.
There are also very few HEMI Cudas which are not using aftermarket
parts (this would go for most classic cars on the road today)
:>The real force behind such laws is
:> twofold. One is to keep you out from under the hood
:> of your own car so you are at the mercy of dealerships
:> and manufactures. The other is to allow large
:> factories and corporations to continue to destroy the
:> environment while putting the blame on the consumer.
:> I am sorry, but the thought that laws such as these
:> are put in place to ensure the safety of those on the
:> roads is laughable at best.
: Sorry Wayne but this is just paranoid beyond belief. You're saying that laws
: aimed at keeping people from racing on the streets are actually part of a
: conspiracy between government, dealerships and manufacturers aimed at
: keeping you from servicing your own vehicle? OK.
Its not such a farfetched idea. Since the proposed law is such an
obviously inappropriate tool to combat the supposed problem, one has to
wonder wether the lawmakers are merely idiots, or wether there is an
ulterior motive.
: I don't know what goes on where you live but in the Greater Toronto Area 28
: people died last year (2001) in street racing accidents. Eighteen of those
: were the occupants of the vehicles, not necessarily the driver. 10 were
: people minding their own damn business and going about their lives until
: some irresponsible punk decided to kill them. If one of those 10 were a
: friend or loved one of your's I'm sure your tune would be different. If you
: had to clean goo of the road at 3:00am your tune would be different too.
That's a darn shame and a genuine tragedy. But once again, the solution
needs to target the problem. This proposed legislation does not. If you
are truly concerned with eliminating the problem, you should get behind
legislation that will be effective against the problem and not these
red herring "solutions" which will only aggrivate the situation. Unless
your involvement runs deeper than wanting to be able to say "well, at least
I tried" to absolve yourself of any feeling of responsibility, then you need
to take a much closer look at the problem and this proposed solution. It
has been said that if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of
the problem. This legislation does not present a solution to the problem,
therefore anyone who supports it is a part of the problem. Taking this a
step further, arguably, anybody who supports this bill supports street
racing. Yes! Stupid laws like this will only stand to hinder genuine
efforts to combat the problem.
: BTW. The longest jail term handed out last year for fatalities involving
: street racing was to a 17 year old who killed a classmate of his while
: racing another classmate. (he boy he killed was just walking down the
: sidewalk oblivious to the fact that two idiots were racing.) The length of
: his sentence? 90 days in jail. Pretty easy time for taking a life.
I suspect he was shielded by some form of minor protection laws; he
probably should have been tried as an adult for involuntary vehicular
manslaughter. If legislators want to increase the penalties for these
"contests of speed" as they are usually termed, then they need to modify
the existing laws to increase the penalties. Pretty simple stuff, really.
No need to create new legislation; just get serious about the laws you
already have! The very fact that the existing laws are not being changed
shows that the legislators do not truly care about the problem. Most
probably they merely want to be on record as appearing to care. Either
that or they are trying to gain more control over the populace and are
merely using street racing as a vehicle to do so. In any case, wether
this legislation is motivated by stupidity, sloth/ego or conspiracy, the fact
remains that since the root problem is not being attacked, they do not
truly care about it. (Or, perhaps they don't care enough about it to do
any actual work to combat it.)
: And before you accuse me of being a tree hugging Al Gore (whoever he is) I
: drive a Dakota I plan to built up to a 5.9, blown if money allows and I live
: in Canada so American laws and American politicians mean nothing to me; only
: American cars ;<)
We're talking about Canadian laws here - the proposed legislation is
an Ontario bill so this should mean a great deal to you... American laws
and politicians have nothing to do with it.
As far as your Dak goes, how do you know you will be legally allowed to
build up your 5.9 or install a blower should this bill pass? You are
obviously trying to modify your truck for street racing. No? Well, can
you prove it? Of course you can't. Because street racers put blowers
on their cars, all blowers should be outlawed. This is what the bill
proposes, and this is *exactly* how sweeping "sawed off shotgun" style
legislation affects "innocent bystanders". Trying to shoot the fly (street
racers) with this legislation (sawed off shotgun) might hit the fly, but
it will also hit everyone else within range (responsible enthusiasts
who add aftermarket parts to their vehicles). Wayne's analogy is an
excellent one.
---Jon-
.---- Jon Steiger ------ jon@dakota-truck.net or jon@jonsteiger.com ------. | I'm the: AOPA, DoD, EAA, NMA, NRA, SPA, USUA. Rec & UL Pilot - SEL | | 70 Cuda, 90 Dak 'vert, 92 Ram 4x4, 96 Dak, 96 Intruder 1400, 96 FireFly | `------------------------------------------ http://www.jonsteiger.com ----'
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