No point missed at all Bob. You missed mine though.
The Ford and GM programming utilities have been around for well over 10 years
and yes, the Dodge tuning capabilities are definitely way behind.
As for the problems with programming MAF and SD...they both have their quirks.
But as I stated, the MAF systems are much more friendly to the daily driver
than the SD systems as they adapt much easier that SD (again...on the daily
driver).
Horror stories on web-boards? Ya think?!? Everyone has tuning issues in one
way or another...that just goes with the game.
- Bernd
>
> You missed the point, Bernd. The GM and Ford tuning stuff is no more "freely
> available" than is the DC stuff. You still have to pay for it. It's also not
> like Ford and GM suddenly decided way back when to just post it on the Net
> or leave the code on somebody's porch in a basket with a note saying "please
> take care of me".
>
> I'm sure it went through the same sort of process that DC is going through
> now and access grew over time. The reality is the knowledge base for tuning
> Dodges is far, far behind that of the GM or Ford crowd. You only need to
> read various Mustang or Camaro boards and look at some of the things they
> discuss when it comes to tuning to get a handle on this.
>
> Putting raw tools out there that is to far above the skill set of the
> average tuning crowd only results is poor results, blown up motors and
> really bad PR, not to mention the deep pockets legal ramifications. 'Over
> here' we still have people doing hopeless mods like the TPS deal, while
> 'over there' they are discussing off idle enrichment table tweaks which is
> the proper way to fix the problem. IMO, we've got some long held bad habits
> that need to be broken first because if you don't go at it with a different
> approach than those carb era tweaks, you're gonna fail.
>
> The FAST and Accel comparisons were strictly to point out that the dig at SD
> systems is misguided. If you think the MAF systems are all that and a bag of
> chips, trot on over to the Mustang boards and read up on some of the tuning
> horror stories they go through every day.
>
> Bob
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
> > [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net]On Behalf Of Bernd D.
> > Ratsch
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 4:56 AM
> > To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> > Subject: DML: RE: RE: RE: Sport truck article
> >
> >
> >
> > Have you looked at the latest GM and Ford (and Import) programming
> > utilities lately (even covering the '03+ models)? Where can
> > I download
> > the programming utility for a Dodge? Where can I call to
> > alter settings
> > on my PCM with easily obtainable software (shareware in some cases)?
> >
> > FAST and Accel are way above what Superchips can do with their
> > programmer...you of all people should know that. That's not a
> > comparison.
> >
> > You're right, there's nothing wrong with SD...as long as you
> > can tune it
> > properly, but Mass Air is much easier to tune for the daily
> > driver with
> > bolt-ons (S/C, Injectors, Cam, Heads, Intake) than SD. Look
> > at how many
> > tuning problems you've had with your setup.
> >
> > Compare the tools available to the public (and not the $1000+
> > programmable systems) and you'll find huge differences in
> > between DC and
> > the other Domestics. I guess DC/Dodge is too proud, or
> > ignorant/blind,
> > or they need to work with their vehicle owners (like GM and Ford do).
> > Call up GM Motorsports (or FMS) and they'll talk your ears off...does
> > Mopar Performance do that? Nope - 1/2 the time they tell you
> > "you can't
> > do that" and the other times they just read the catalogs over
> > the phone.
> > Don't get me wrong...I love my Mopars, but the end-user tools
> > available
> > aren't up to snuff with their competitions.
> >
> > - Bernd
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
> > [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net] On Behalf Of
> > Bob Mankin
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 1:48 AM
> > To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> > Subject: DML: RE: RE: Sport truck article
> >
> >
> >
> > Where ya been, Bernd. Code was released last year. What do you think
> > Superchips is using to develop their new Dodge tuner?
> >
> > Nothing wrong with speed density either. The popular FAST and Accel
> > stand alone systems do just fine and both are speed density based for
> > the Dodge.
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Feb 06 2004 - 11:46:35 EST