Honestly, we could argue/debate this issue until we're blue in the face
- both systems have their place as well as advantages and disadvantages.
For the daily driver though, MAF is much easier on the tuning side than
MAP and allows for a little more flexibility on "upgrades" than MAP. If
you install a S/C (or Turbo), CARB EO# Cam, Intake, TB, Headers, and
Exhaust, there are much fewer tuning issues for the end user than on a
MAP based system (just look at the tuning questions we get here on the
DML). That's the beauty of MAF - air volume. But there are limitations
to MAF - and on the ultra high end vehicles (don't know how high-end you
want to go), SD and highly customized systems are used (with a high cost
and tuning factor)...but there still seems to be a lot of carburetors in
that arena. ;)
Why don't you find tools for (as in your example) BMW and Mercedes?
Easy, you need to look a lot harder for them (not in the US). Dinan has
done an excellent job on the BMW's for years and AMG...well...we all
know what they can do. It also depends on the class of vehicle, type of
customer that buys them, age group, etc. You think grandma is going to
want to custom flash her Buick LeSabre or "Bif" is going to fiddle
around with the PCM program in his AMG? (Some do...but not as often as
we think - and when they do, they pay a lot more money for the
parts/programming.)
- Bernd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
[mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net] On Behalf Of Shane
Moseley
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 9:38 PM
To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
Subject: Re: DML: RE: RE: RE: Sport truck article
Interesting point of view - typical of those who have experienced some
of the "tools" avail. for GM and Ford systems. Don't get me wrong - I'm
not trying to dis this point of view but rather hear pretty much the
exact same thing from one of my buddies at work. He is in the ricer
crowd - a former DSM street racer. His "tools" are more along the lines
of little hardware "boxes" that modify MAF (and other sensor) signals
claiming to allow "fully programmable fuel and spark curves". He too
believes that DC is far behind the curve as far as providing methods of
modifying the fuel and spark management systems. What really sends him
off thinking is when I ask him what "tools" are available to program
fuel and spark curves on say a Mercedes, or a BMW, or a late-model
Harley-Davidson EFI bike. He is also a major fan of MAF systems and
hates MAP systems as he believes they are so inferior when compared to
MAF. I then ask him to explain to me why all the high-end (both OEM and
aftermarket) systems are all MAP-based systems and then the followup
question is why all the low-end (Jap and cheap) systems are all
MAF-based.
He really hates the fact that he cannot find the answer to those
questions...
Shane
Bernd D. Ratsch wrote:
>Have you looked at the latest GM and Ford (and Import) programming
>utilities lately (even covering the '03+ models)? Where can I download
>the programming utility for a Dodge? Where can I call to alter
>settings on my PCM with easily obtainable software (shareware in some
>cases)?
>
>FAST and Accel are way above what Superchips can do with their
>programmer...you of all people should know that. That's not a
>comparison.
>
>You're right, there's nothing wrong with SD...as long as you can tune
>it properly, but Mass Air is much easier to tune for the daily driver
>with bolt-ons (S/C, Injectors, Cam, Heads, Intake) than SD. Look at
>how many tuning problems you've had with your setup.
>
>Compare the tools available to the public (and not the $1000+
>programmable systems) and you'll find huge differences in between DC
>and the other Domestics. I guess DC/Dodge is too proud, or
>ignorant/blind, or they need to work with their vehicle owners (like GM
>and Ford do). Call up GM Motorsports (or FMS) and they'll talk your
>ears off...does Mopar Performance do that? Nope - 1/2 the time they
>tell you "you can't do that" and the other times they just read the
>catalogs over the phone. Don't get me wrong...I love my Mopars, but the
>end-user tools available aren't up to snuff with their competitions.
>
>- Bernd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
>[mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net] On Behalf Of Bob
>Mankin
>Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 1:48 AM
>To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
>Subject: DML: RE: RE: Sport truck article
>
>
>
>Where ya been, Bernd. Code was released last year. What do you think
>Superchips is using to develop their new Dodge tuner?
>
>Nothing wrong with speed density either. The popular FAST and Accel
>stand alone systems do just fine and both are speed density based for
>the Dodge.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Feb 06 2004 - 11:46:36 EST