You do realize that timing is related to RPM and MAP. With a higher stall
converter, the timing will change at launch - computer registers higher RPM
with different "load" and viola...timing changes (nature of the beast).
This is why you have them custom flashed to reflect the different parameters
(not necessarily disabling or altering the TQ Management either).
It also depends on the converter "math" used to achieve the stall speed
(this includes updated components with different tolerances or upgraded
parts with different ratio's inside the converter). I've seen some
converters that "claim" to be high performance from two other "builders",
but they are just loosened up internally to give you higher stall - poor
design and causes problems with lock-up, shifting, and launch.
- Bernd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
[mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net] On Behalf Of Tim Berry
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:35 AM
To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
Subject: RE: DML: Torque management-4.7l auto
Easy, if you have a high stall converter, take a scanner, and watch the
timing advance closely. Lock your parking brake, and hold the regular brake
firmly, place shifter in drive, and slowly stall the truck up to approx
2000RPMs and watch the timing from 2000RPMs up, if you see your timing drop
to 0 from lets say 30% throttle, to 100% throttle, then guess what, ya got
it :)
It only affected me once I was making some good numbers (~300RWHP) so, if
you're dealing with a stock, or near stock motor, it may not have the "umph"
to stall the converter as high as mine did. (I used the Mopar Performance
2400 stall in the 44RE) and it would stall as high as 2700...
How does one "find" that they have TQ management?
----Timing to zero???? The only person I've seen attempt to document this
converter phenom with a DRBIII was Travis Mock and he was talking something
on the order of 4 degrees retard. What you are suggesting is along the lines
of 30+ degrees. BTW, Travis ran some 12.3ish ETs in the heat of Phoenix with
a '99 controller that supposedly had this "TQ management problem" and he had
respectable 60's too. Again, I think the issue is overblown.
Nope, it would drop my timing from the mid to high 20 degree range, straight
to 0. Several people at the dealership were very stumped on this. As well
as my friend who worked at the dealership called Chrysler to ask what the
hell was going on, and they recommended a new PCM. Well.... the new PCM had
it too...
----The idea that some trucks have it and some don't just feeds the rumor
mill. It is HIGHLY unlikely that you would see such a major PCM subroutine
flashed into some 360 trucks, but not others, especially if you're talking
about a given model year. Less timing or the "death flash" everyone points
to, OK. But major program mods like that are not likely.
If you've got a FSM for your truck, look up the connectors on the PCM and
see if there is a torque management wire in the harness. Then verify if that
wire is physically there on your truck. That would be a start. My '01 does
have the signal wire, but I don't know that all Gen IIIs did. But even with
the wire, that's no assurance that the feature is programmed or enabled in a
given controller.
Nope, no wire, I can tell you what it reads on my 97. On the 96 and 97
dakotas, we have an "Output Shaft Speed Sensor" which measured the
rotational speed of the output shaft at the rear of the tranny. I found
once disconnecting this sensor, if you have torque management, for each
INITIAL startup, you can feel the torque management by taking off rapidly...
(just stomp it) you will receive 0 degrees of timing advance until the PCM
realizes that the sensor has failed for that driving cycle. Once the
computer realizes this, you no longer will have torque management, until you
turn the truck off.
The actual line of code that the torque management is in on my truck is in
the "ABS" section. That is all I know about where in my 97 PCM it is
located.
You can believe what you want about the torque management, but I can tell
you, I researched this torque management about 2-3 years ago, calling
everyone possible, taking notes, etc.
Just consider yourself lucky if you don't have it. It was so fustrating
when I had no idea what was going on, I was considering buying a Lightning
or Mustang. Now, I can say my truck will run 11's with no problems (other
than traction)
Again, hope this helps the list out some.
Tim Berry - 97 Dakota CC SLT
Nothing Stock is left :-)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Feb 06 2004 - 11:47:09 EST