Hey now! I'm so far right of center,I have to wear
fifty lbs. of wheel weights on my left hip pocket just
so I can walk a straight line! Ann Coulter is the
fourth member of the Trinity,I feel. :)
Thanks!
Steve P.
--- Tom Byrne <kerib@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> Though Jon may be right of center, he is not
> entirely incorrect. The
> government SHOULD let markets function and set
> prices and wages. Tim, you
> bash 18th century ideals. There was a great article
> this week in the Wall
> Street Journal as to why the far left shuns history.
> The author has his own
> ideas and I will let the reader decide if he is
> right, but I do see the left
> deride history as either irrelevant or dangerous.
>
> Tell me, why is 18th century precedent worse than
> 20th century precedent. I
> would argue that the libertine society set forth by
> our founding fathers in
> the 18th century was much better than Marxism
> developed in the 19th Century
> or extreme Soviet-style socialism of the 20th
> century. Newer ideas are not
> always better ideas.
>
> New products, services and governments fail all the
> time, yet some age-old
> ideas still hold true today. Thomas Jefferson (a
> Federalist mind you) said
> it best: "That government is best which governs the
> least, because its
> people discipline themselves."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pindell, Tim P" <TPindell@otterbein.edu>
> To: <dml@dakota-truck.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:05 PM
> Subject: RE: DML: Made in China
>
>
> >
> > I think we're finally getting to the meat of this
> issue.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
> >> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net]
> On Behalf Of
> >> jon@dakota-truck.net
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:18 PM
> >> To: dakota-truck-moderator@bent.twistedbits.net
> >> Subject: Re: DML: Made in China
> >>
> >>
> >> "Pindell, Tim P" <TPindell@otterbein.edu> wrote:
> >> >"Jon Steiger" <jon@dakota-truck.net> wrote:
> >> >> "We" shouldn't do anything about them. It
> is not the
> >> government's
> >> >> role to create jobs, its only roles are to
> provide
> >> national defense,
> >> >> mete out justice according to proscribed law,
> and enforce the
> >> >> contractual obligations of its citizens.
> Anything not
> >> covered by the
> >> >> previous sentence is an item that government
> should not be
> >> involved
> >> >> with in any way. Government's "role", (if you
> want to
> >> call it that),
> >> >> in regards to finding new jobs for displaced
> workers is merely to
> >> >> stay out of the way and let the market work.
> >>
> >> > Someone is in for a big disappointment. Keep
> tilting at those
> >> > windmills, Jon. You still might be able to
> vote "Ron Paul".
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm already dissapointed. The system is
> *already* broken.
> >> The principles I referenced are how the
> government was
> >> originally designed to work and how it *should*
> be working.
> >> I am under no illusion that these fundamental
> principles are
> >> given even the slightest thought by most in
> government today.
> >> I am optimistic that there are opportunities to
> turn back
> >> the clock on many of the abuses of the past
> >> 230+ years and move closer to those ideals, but
> we are so far gone
> >> that I fear a complete return would probably
> require another
> >> massive catalyst such as a catastrophe and/or
> another War for
> >> Independence.
> >
> > You wish for the impossible, and I sincerely feel
> badly about that. I
> > can't help you. We can't go back. We've evolved
> and learned new things
> > since then. I have no easy, comforting answer for
> you. We didn't stop
> > learning or thinking when those original
> experimental principles were
> > drawn up. It must be a horrible existence, every
> day, to see your world
> > irrevocably, inevitably torn apart around you and
> you can do nothing to
> > stop it.
> >
> >>
> >> Its no surprise to me that your response was
> more of the
> >> same - sarcasm and attemtped denigration rather
> than real
> >> content or ideas.
> >
> > How do you expect me to react!? You're a
> political anachronism! You ask
> > for the same thing *every single time* and you
> *know* that its not
> > possible. I simply can't take it any longer.
> Somebody had to call
> > shenanigans. You seem to desire a return to some
> innocent time with a
> > pure and idealistic revolution in easy black and
> white. You're an
> > intelligent *grown man* yet you continue to
> believe in this romantic
> > notion of a centuries-old ideological purity that
> likely never existed.
> > That saddens me because you're smart enough to
> know that the world is
> > probably much more complicated than an 18th
> century political
> > philosopher ever thought it could be. We can do
> things he couldn't
> > possibly have imagined! But that doesn't mean that
> some of the things
> > we've learned from him aren't worth keeping or
> that we can't learn and
> > add to our understanding as time moves on. It was
> not my original intent
> > to get your thong in a bunch. (Later it was, and
> I'm sorry about that.)
> > Up until this post, I actually didn't believe that
> you were this
> > extreme. Nor was I fully aware of the sincerity
> with which you held
> > these extreme ideas. I really should have left
> you alone.
> >
> >> The fact that you would think I will someday be
> dissapointed
> >> to discover that our government doesn't proscribe
> to its
> >> founding ideals is illustrative of the regard you
> hold for my
> >> grasp of any of these issues and confirms that I
> have been
> >> wasting my time with you.
> >
> > I respect you as an individual human being, but
> you're right. My regard
> > for your brand of olde-tyme rigid political views
> has been in decline
> > for a few years now. The willing denial of the
> present for an impossible
> > return to the past, the bleak denial
> of...humanity, the cold, easy,
> > life-isn't-fair disregard of the other... It
> appears that your own
> > humanity isn't worthy of respect to you either.
> >
> >> I suppose I knew it all along, but
> >> my optimism for a person's desire to search for
> the truth, or
> >> at the very least to remain open to the
> possibility of other
> >> ideas tends to cloud my judgement sometimes.
> >
> > This is part of the problem, Jon. It's not always
> about *you* or your
> > perception of your own intellectual and moral
> superiority. That's what
> > clouds judgment; hubris. There are several topics
> about which I am
> > old-school conservative/libertarian, however, all
> we seem to discuss
> > here is economics and labour, and about that, I am
> unabashedly left of
> > center. Remember, your truth isn't the only truth.
> Not all truths are
> > "conservative", Jon, but many are. Sometimes there
> is
=== message truncated ===
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 QC Black 4X4 Sport w/Hemi
2003 Dodge Dakota Sport CC Red 4X2 Sport w/3.9 and 42RE (Work truck,driven the most often)
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Silver 4X4 w/4.0 and 42RE
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