Ha, ha!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernd D. Ratsch" <bernd@dodgetrucks.org>
To: <dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: DML: Made in China
>
> I'd stick with Clinton...main reason: 1 week out of every month, NOBODY
> would mess with us (ever seen a President PMS'ing?) ;)
>
> - Bernd
> (Give me a politician that doesn't lie or promise things that they
> actually
> can do, and I'll vote for them)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Byrne [mailto:kerib@ptd.net]
> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:35 AM
> To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> Subject: Re: DML: Made in China
>
>
> I fall right of McCain, but no further right than Giuliani (we come from
> the
> boroughs of NYC where people are socially liberal and fiscally
> conservative). I think both Romney and Obama are good men who are being
> demonized for religious reasons. This is an 18th century tradition which
> should be eliminated.
>
> I am actually happy that McCain is going to win the nomination. I may nit
> agree with everything he says, but he takes a stand and has courage.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Preston" <steveophonic@yahoo.com>
> To: <dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net>
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: DML: Made in China
>
>
>>
>> Hey now! I'm so far right of center,I have to wear fifty lbs. of wheel
>> weights on my left hip pocket just so I can walk a straight line! Ann
>> Coulter is the fourth member of the Trinity,I feel. :)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Steve P.
>> --- Tom Byrne <kerib@ptd.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Though Jon may be right of center, he is not entirely incorrect. The
>>> government SHOULD let markets function and set prices and wages. Tim,
>>> you bash 18th century ideals. There was a great article this week in
>>> the Wall Street Journal as to why the far left shuns history.
>>> The author has his own
>>> ideas and I will let the reader decide if he is right, but I do see
>>> the left deride history as either irrelevant or dangerous.
>>>
>>> Tell me, why is 18th century precedent worse than 20th century
>>> precedent. I would argue that the libertine society set forth by our
>>> founding fathers in the 18th century was much better than Marxism
>>> developed in the 19th Century or extreme Soviet-style socialism of
>>> the 20th century. Newer ideas are not always better ideas.
>>>
>>> New products, services and governments fail all the time, yet some
>>> age-old ideas still hold true today. Thomas Jefferson (a Federalist
>>> mind you) said it best: "That government is best which governs the
>>> least, because its people discipline themselves."
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Pindell, Tim P" <TPindell@otterbein.edu>
>>> To: <dml@dakota-truck.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 1:05 PM
>>> Subject: RE: DML: Made in China
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I think we're finally getting to the meat of this
>>> issue.
>>> >
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
>>> >> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net]
>>> On Behalf Of
>>> >> jon@dakota-truck.net
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:18 PM
>>> >> To: dakota-truck-moderator@bent.twistedbits.net
>>> >> Subject: Re: DML: Made in China
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Pindell, Tim P" <TPindell@otterbein.edu> wrote:
>>> >> >"Jon Steiger" <jon@dakota-truck.net> wrote:
>>> >> >> "We" shouldn't do anything about them. It
>>> is not the
>>> >> government's
>>> >> >> role to create jobs, its only roles are to
>>> provide
>>> >> national defense,
>>> >> >> mete out justice according to proscribed law,
>>> and enforce the
>>> >> >> contractual obligations of its citizens.
>>> Anything not
>>> >> covered by the
>>> >> >> previous sentence is an item that government
>>> should not be
>>> >> involved
>>> >> >> with in any way. Government's "role", (if you
>>> want to
>>> >> call it that),
>>> >> >> in regards to finding new jobs for displaced
>>> workers is merely to
>>> >> >> stay out of the way and let the market work.
>>> >>
>>> >> > Someone is in for a big disappointment. Keep
>>> tilting at those
>>> >> > windmills, Jon. You still might be able to
>>> vote "Ron Paul".
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm already dissapointed. The system is
>>> *already* broken.
>>> >> The principles I referenced are how the
>>> government was
>>> >> originally designed to work and how it *should*
>>> be working.
>>> >> I am under no illusion that these fundamental
>>> principles are
>>> >> given even the slightest thought by most in
>>> government today.
>>> >> I am optimistic that there are opportunities to
>>> turn back
>>> >> the clock on many of the abuses of the past
>>> >> 230+ years and move closer to those ideals, but
>>> we are so far gone
>>> >> that I fear a complete return would probably
>>> require another
>>> >> massive catalyst such as a catastrophe and/or
>>> another War for
>>> >> Independence.
>>> >
>>> > You wish for the impossible, and I sincerely feel
>>> badly about that. I
>>> > can't help you. We can't go back. We've evolved
>>> and learned new things
>>> > since then. I have no easy, comforting answer for
>>> you. We didn't stop
>>> > learning or thinking when those original
>>> experimental principles were
>>> > drawn up. It must be a horrible existence, every
>>> day, to see your world
>>> > irrevocably, inevitably torn apart around you and
>>> you can do nothing to
>>> > stop it.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Its no surprise to me that your response was
>>> more of the
>>> >> same - sarcasm and attemtped denigration rather
>>> than real
>>> >> content or ideas.
>>> >
>>> > How do you expect me to react!? You're a
>>> political anachronism! You ask
>>> > for the same thing *every single time* and you
>>> *know* that its not
>>> > possible. I simply can't take it any longer.
>>> Somebody had to call
>>> > shenanigans. You seem to desire a return to some
>>> innocent time with a
>>> > pure and idealistic revolution in easy black and
>>> white. You're an
>>> > intelligent *grown man* yet you continue to
>>> believe in this romantic
>>> > notion of a centuries-old ideological purity that
>>> likely never existed.
>>> > That saddens me because you're smart enough to
>>> know that the world is
>>> > probably much more complicated than an 18th
>>> century political
>>> > philosopher ever thought it could be. We can do
>>> things he couldn't
>>> > possibly have imagined! But that doesn't mean that
>>> some of the things
>>> > we've learned from him aren't worth keeping or
>>> that we can't learn and
>>> > add to our understanding as time moves on. It was
>>> not my original intent
>>> > to get your thong in a bunch. (Later it was, and
>>> I'm sorry about that.)
>>> > Up until this post, I actually didn't believe that
>>> you were this
>>> > extreme. Nor was I fully aware of the sincerity
>>> with which you held
>>> > these extreme ideas. I really should have left
>>> you alone.
>>> >
>>> >> The fact that you would think I will someday be
>>> dissapointed
>>> >> to discover that our government doesn't proscribe
>>> to its
>>> >> founding ideals is illustrative of the regard you
>>> hold for my
>>> >> grasp of any of these issues and confirms that I
>>> have been
>>> >> wasting my time with you.
>>> >
>>> > I respect you as an individual human being, but
>>> you're right. My regard
>>> > for your brand of olde-tyme rigid political views
>>> has been in decline
>>> > for a few years now. The willing denial of the
>>> present for an impossible
>>> > return to the past, the bleak denial
>>> of...humanity, the cold, easy,
>>> > life-isn't-fair disregard of the other... It
>>> appears that your own
>>> > humanity isn't worthy of respect to you either.
>>> >
>>> >> I suppose I knew it all along, but my optimism for a person's
>>> >> desire to search for
>>> the truth, or
>>> >> at the very least to remain open to the
>>> possibility of other
>>> >> ideas tends to cloud my judgement sometimes.
>>> >
>>> > This is part of the problem, Jon. It's not always
>>> about *you* or your
>>> > perception of your own intellectual and moral
>>> superiority. That's what
>>> > clouds judgment; hubris. There are several topics
>>> about which I am
>>> > old-school conservative/libertarian, however, all
>>> we seem to discuss
>>> > here is economics and labour, and about that, I am
>>> unabashedly left of
>>> > center. Remember, your truth isn't the only truth.
>>> Not all truths are
>>> > "conservative", Jon, but many are. Sometimes there
>>> is
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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