ok guys my bad on the ats . i guess what i meant is its not in the air box daa . ray ,yes i put the plugs in myself and oh yes i have tools . i have been maintaining all my vehicles for many years and currently maintain 4 family cars.i'm not afraid to tackle anything.i am in the autoparts biz and have been for 32 years at a independent wd/jobber warehouse.with all the industry info at my disposal i cant condemn the plugs but will try them any way.i need to find a service manual and read it for myself .thanks again guys
--- On Wed, 9/15/10, Ray Block <BPracing@wowway.com> wrote:
> From: Ray Block <BPracing@wowway.com>
> Subject: RE: DML: Re: K&N fipk
> To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 7:02 PM
>
> Mike, I have a '00 Jeep 4.7 and it most certainly does have
> an intake air
> temp sensor in the intake manifold. It is
> on the driver's side, just below
> the throttle body. It has two wires going
> to it.
>
> I also have a factory Service Manual and it says what Jon
> told you... DO NOT
> use anything but copper core spark
> plugs. Poor performance and possible
> engine damage may result from using platinum or other
> exotic spark plugs.
> Later models and H.O. versions may be exceptions.
>
> I get the feeling from your post that you didn't change the
> plugs yourself
> the last time. While not the easiest task
> compared to old school engines
> it's doable on your own if you have the right tools and
> know enough to use
> petroleum jelly on o-rings and a little dab of anti-seize
> on the plug
> threads....and the proper torque on all fasteners.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Ray
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
> [mailto:owner-dakota-
> > truck@bent.twistedbits.net]
> On Behalf Of MICHAEL CABE
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 6:07 PM
> > To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> > Subject: Re: DML: Re: K&N fipk
> >
> >
> > jon,
> > thanks for the good info.early 02 4.7 dak have no air
> temp sensors as for
> > knocking something loose I have triple checked .I also
> thought it might be
> > the plugs but according to champion they don't think
> its the plugs.I will
> > try unhooking the battery though and maybe the plugs
> they are not that big
> > of a deal to change .thanks again for your input.i
> will let you know what
> > happens
> > Mike
> >
> > --- On Wed, 9/15/10, jon@dakota-truck.net
> <jon@dakota-truck.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: jon@dakota-truck.net
> <jon@dakota-truck.net>
> > > Subject: Re: DML: Re: K&N fipk
> > > To: dakota-truck-moderator@bent.twistedbits.net
> > > Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 1:27 AM
> > >
> > > MICHAEL CABE <mikecabe@prodigy.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > > I replaced the whole stock air box with the
> K&N
> > > setup . It just
> > > > seems that it is dogie and falls on its face
> like a
> > > lean condition .
> > > > I see no gas mileage gain . I put new plugs
> in at the
> > > same time as
> > > > they were shot . I used champion iridium
> plugs .
> > >
> > >
> > > You changed 2 variables at once, so its
> not
> > > possible to blame the
> > > K&N without first eliminating it or the plugs
> from the
> > > equation. The
> > > FSM says that the 4.7L is equipped with copper
> core plugs
> > > from the
> > > factory and warns that preignition will result if
> another
> > > type of plug
> > > is used. I'm not familiar with the Iridium
> plugs, but
> > > they could very
> > > well be the cause of your problems. Frankly,
> the
> > > fancy spark plugs
> > > usually cause more trouble than they are worth,
> and that
> > > might be the
> > > case in your situation. Its a bit of a hassle
> to swap
> > > plugs, but one
> > > thing you could try is to put the stock intake
> system back
> > > on, and if
> > > the truck wakes back up, that could be an
> indication that
> > > the problem
> > > is indeed the K&N. If not, it might be the
> > > plugs. Did you gap them
> > > to .040"?
> > >
> > >
> > > > The truck has about
> > > > 62000 on it .It idles smooth as silk and
> cruises fine
> > > . I think it
> > > > sucks too much air .
> > >
> > >
> > > With an EFI system, it isn't really
> possible
> > > to suck too much air
> > > - the engine will only use as much air as it
> needs,
> > > regardless of the
> > > flow capability of its intake tract. Unless
> you're
> > > using some sort of
> > > forced induction, I would not expect the engine
> to lean out
> > > simply
> > > because the intake has more flow capability.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have had the K&N setup on it for about
> 3000
> > > > miles I would think it would have learned by
> now .
> > >
> > >
> > > Probably, but if you did not disconnect
> the
> > > battery during the K&N
> > > install, I'd recommend doing it now, just to make
> sure the
> > > computer is
> > > starting out from scratch.
> > >
> > >
> > > > The truck has no
> > > > mass airflow sensor or an air temp sensor .
> > >
> > >
> > > Unless you have modified the engine from
> > > stock, the air temp
> > > sensor is located in the intake manifold, near
> the left
> > > side of the
> > > throttle body.
> > >
> > >
> > > > After I installed the
> > > > fipk i read an article some where I don't
> remember
> > > where that said
> > > > without a mass airflow the computer doesn't
> know what
> > > to do with the
> > > > xtra air and could create a lean condition
> .I just
> > > wanted to know if
> > > > anyone had heard this or had the same
> problem Mike
> > > Cabe
> > >
> > >
> > > No, a mass airflow sensor is not necessary
> -
> > > our engines use the
> > > speed density system which uses a manifold
> pressure sensor
> > > and engine
> > > RPM as inputs to a lookup table to calculate
> fuel
> > > requirements. The
> > > oxygen sensor compensates from there (within
> certain
> > > limits) to keep
> > > the air/fuel ratio right. A K&N intake is
> well
> > > within the operating
> > > parameters of the stock programming and will not
> lean it
> > > out.
> > >
> > > Also, you mentioned that the truck feels
> > > "dogie" and falls on its
> > > face. I assume this is during hard
> > > acceleration? Under those
> > > conditions, the truck is in open loop and the
> stock fuel
> > > mapping is so
> > > rich that there's no way a K&N intake could
> lean it out
> > > to that
> > > degree.
> > >
> > > It sounds like there is something else
> going
> > > on here. Possibly a
> > > sensor which wasn't plugged back in or got
> knocked loose
> > > during the
> > > install. My gut is telling me to suspect those
> spark
> > > plugs. Since
> > > swapping the intake out is really easy, my
> recommendation
> > > would be to
> > > slap the stock intake back in there and see if
> the truck
> > > goes back to
> > > normal. If not, I'd yank those plugs and
> install a
> > > set of the
> > > recommended copper core plugs. (Champion
> RC12MCC4, or
> > > possibly the
> > > Champion 4071 truck plugs)
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > -Jon-
> > >
> > > .- Jon Steiger -- jon@dakota-truck.net
> > > or jon@jonsteiger.com
> > > -.
> > > | '96 Kolb Firefly, '96 Suzuki Intruder,
> > > Miscellaneous Mopars |
> > > `-------------------------------- http://www.jonsteiger.com --'
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
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