Thanks for the info. My mom had a Dodge Spirit and the paint was pitted
when she bought it. The repainted over the pits four times. Never once
did they attempt to correct the problem the right way. The local
dealership did not give her a hard time, but they didn't fix the problem
correctly. I will keep this info in mind, and hope for the best with my
98 Kota.
Glenn
Bristol, CT
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob DeChance
>Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 10:15 PM
>To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
>Subject: DML: Fw: I Won My "Peeling Paint" Lawsuit Against Chrysler Canada
>
>I saw this post and thought it may be of intrest to DML members that have
>had paint problems with their truck.
>
>Bob DeChance
>Stockton Ca
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve <nobody@pacificcoast.net>
>Newsgroups: alt.autos.dodge.trucks
>Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 10:55 PM
>Subject: I Won My "Peeling Paint" Lawsuit Against Chrysler Canada
>
>
>>My year-long "peeling paint" dispute with Chrysler Canada is over.
>>About two months ago, I got my truck back from a local shop where the
>>entire body was stripped down to bare metal and repainted -- paid for
>>entirely by Chrysler Canada. Last week, they repaid my court costs.
>>The following article outlines my fight with them. The bottom line is
>>-- they won't take you seriously until you sue.
>>
>>My truck is a metallic silver-gray 1992 Dodge 3/4 ton 4X4 with the
>>Cummins Diesel -- a limited edition with every option except sunroof
>>and bucket seats. It has been used strictly for recreation -- never as
>>a work vehicle. It has been well maintained -- washed and waxed on a
>>regular basis. I've hauled an 8' camper, towed a light boat trailer,
>>a light utility trailer, and hauled the occasional load of firewood.
>>The great majority of its 125,000 kilometers are highway kilometers.
>>If not for the failing paint, this truck would still have appeared to
>>be in "like new" condition.
>>
>>Over the past five years, I did manage to get a few minor marks on the
>>body as follows:
>>
>>1) There were a number of small rock chips along the front rim of the
>>hood. Only one penetrated the undercoat, exposing bare metal and
>>causing a dime-sized dent 1 - 2 mm in depth. At most of the "chip
>>sites", the colour coat was peeling away, exposing the primer.
>>Estimators at local shops believed that most of these chips were due
>>to the failing paint. Healthy paint would not have resulted in the
>>inordinate number of chips. Similar chips were apparent in all body
>>panels -- even where impact with rock chips was nil. There was no
>>corresponding rock chip damage to the front bumper or grill work.
>>
>>2) On the cab roof, directly above the driver's head, there was a
>>scuff mark (approximately 10cm X 25cm) where the roof was chafed by an
>>underground parking sign. This scuff was difficult to see, with
>>slight marking only of the outer colour coat. There was no dent.
>>
>>3) On the passenger-side door, there was a slight dent perhaps 5 - 10
>>mm deep and 6 - 7 cm in diameter just below the window. The was no
>>paint damage at this dent.
>>
>>4) There were two tiny dents -- difficult to see -- (less than 5 cm
>>in diameter -- 2 - 3 mm deep) along the top edge of the right front
>>fender that appear to have been made by elbows of people working in
>>the engine compartment. There was no paint damage at these, either.
>>
>>5) Along both sides of the box were numerous (several hundred) small
>>"spots" of missing paint, with the primer exposed. Most of these were
>>approximately the size of a pin head -- less than 2 or 3 mm in
>>diameter. At several of them, more paint was easily scraped away when
>>rubbed lightly with a fingernail. Experts examining the truck told me
>>they have seen this type of paint failure in numerous Chrysler
>>vehicles of this age and colour.
>>
>>I eventually asked the estimators from several body-shops for an
>>estimate to repair this damage, caused by *anything other than failing
>>paint*. Each estimate suggested approximately 30 minutes of work was
>>required.
>>
>>I first noticed the failing paint while waxing the truck about 1 1/2
>>years ago -- there was a strange wrinkling of the paint on the hood.
>>Close examination with a magnifying glass revealed the paint was
>>actually cracking and starting to come loose from the undercoat. A
>>friend remarked that Chrysler was having a lot of problems with
>>peeling paint -- I found copious information on this subject via the
>>internet. Within a month or two, the paint was flaking and peeling,
>>leaving palm sized areas of exposed primer. I took the truck to a
>>local Chrysler dealer, and had it inspected by their service manager.
>>
>>
>>All the warranty work since I purchased the truck new, had been done
>>at Willie Dodge Chrysler here in Victoria, B.C. The Service Manager
>>there is a hard guy to like -- pompous, officious, and humorless. He
>>strutted around the truck, asking questions clearly intended to trick
>>me into making admissions that the truck had not been properly
>>maintained. "Done all the oil changes yourself, have you?" he asked
>>(or words very close to that). He carefully examined all the rock
>>chips along the hood, and other markings described above. Then after
>>several seconds of ponderous, alleged thought, and with all the
>>self-righteous piety of a TV evangelist, he announced that "we decline
>>to assist due to the *considerable body damage*". This is very close
>>to a verbatim quote. The "considerable body damage" phrase is exact
>>-- I jotted it down after he left.
>>
>>I went back home and I got mad. The more I thought about it, the
>>madder I got. I had clearly been "brushed off". I took his comments
>>as a deep personal insult.
>>
>>Much information on the net suggests that I should have expected this.
>>I began following the advice of people who have been down this road.
>>First, I wrote detailed letters (including photographs) to the head
>>offices of Chrysler in the USA and Canada. I eventually received a
>>reply from Chrysler Canada -- a form letter with a total of four
>>sentences, one of them stating, "Within warranty parameters, Chrysler
>>Canada will not hesitate to assume the repair costs; however, after
>>the warranty terms have been exceeded, charges must be accepted by the
>>vehicle owner." Their letter did not refer to the subject matter of
>>my letter. It was generic -- designed to respond to any complaint
>>received from any of their valued clients.
>>
>>Next, I called an 800-number customer service line here in Canada, for
>>Chrysler clients. It took several hours to get through. Finally, I
>>got a representative, and explained the situation. She put me on
>>hold, and called the Service Manager in Victoria. After several
>>minutes, when she came back on-line, she repeated his exact phrase --
>>there would be no further assistance due to the "considerable body
>>damage" noted on the truck. I asked if my only recourse was to sue?
>>The representative said that would be up to me, or something to that
>>effect. End of conversation.
>>
>>So you can see what they were doing -- hoping that at this point, I'd
>>simply give up and go away. I guess most people do. The thing that
>>was really driving me in this whole affair, was the insufferable
>>service manager at Willie Dodge Chrysler , and his lofty, arrogant,
>>holier-than-thou attitude. I paid a visit to the local Court house
>>and obtained a large envelope full of information about launching a
>>lawsuit in a Canadian Small Claims Court.
>>
>>It's easy and inexpensive -- the whole process cost less than $200
>>(recoverable when you win). Anyone can do it, and you don't need a
>>lawyer. The clerk was extremely helpful -- I could tell that she had
>>helped a lot of people through the process. She explained precisely
>>how to do a company search, how much it would cost, how to serve the
>>papers by registered mail, and so forth. I filed my suit.
>>
>>A week or so later, along came a letter from Chrysler Canada's lawyer.
>>In this letter, they again used the Willie Dodge Chrysler Service
>>Manager's precise phrase "considerable damage" to the affected panels,
>>but allowed that "without admitting liability in any way" they may be
>>willing to discuss negotiating the matter. The letter suggested I
>>contact their western representative. This is what I'd asked for
>>several months ago, in letters and telephone calls to their customer
>>service number. You see how it works? They simply won't talk to you,
>>until you sue them.
>>
>>Finally, in their "official" response to my claim, sent off to small
>>claims court, they said:
>>
>>1) they were not liable to assist in any way
>>2) there was insinuation the damage may be due to exposure to the
>>elements -- airborne fallout, chemicals, tree sap, insects, etc.
>>3) a verbatim quote, "Chrysler states that all or some of the damage
>>to the paint has been caused by misuse and damage to the Vehicle
>>caused by the Claimant or others." Unquote.
>>5) It concluded with a statement that I should immediately dismiss my
>>claim, and repay Chrysler Canada their costs to date.
>>
>>If it was possible to piss me off even further, this letter had done
>>it.
>>
>>I replied to their lawyer with a letter. In it, I described the
>>"considerable damage" to the truck (as above), the evidence collected
>>from local body shops and from the internet. I said based upon the
>>tone of their counter-claim for costs, it would be a waste of time
>>talking to Chrysler's Vancouver representative. He would likely
>>continue with predictable delaying tactics and insulting offers of
>>partial assistance. I suggested that we immediately arrange a date to
>>meet in small claims court where a judge could review the matter. I
>>pointed out that to date, I had kept this matter private, but if it
>>went to court, I would likely "go public", and get the media involved
>>in some way.
>>
>>A week or so later, I received a call from Chrysler's representative
>>in Vancouver. I was prepared to immediately cut him off, and demand a
>>court date. But he seemed quite conciliatory, saying that this matter
>>should not have progressed this far, and that after reviewing my
>>letter, he was keen to get it resolved. He suggested that I take the
>>truck back to the service manager at Willie Dodge Chrysler . I guess
>>I "exploded" at this suggestion. After calming me down, he asked me
>>to go to the other dealer in town, Ensign Dodge Chrysler, giving me
>>the name of the Service Manager there. I called him, made an
>>appointment, and a few days later, went to see him.
>>
>>This guy was OK. His demeanor was business-like and neutral. I
>>sensed he was prepared to call this either way -- in my favour if my
>>version of the story was correct, or to tell me "no deal" if he
>>decided I was a BS artist. I had myself "psyched-up" for a fairly
>>intense confrontation -- it never came. He called a guy over from a
>>local body shop to look at the truck. It took less than ten minutes
>>for them to decide that it should be repainted under warranty. The
>>estimator reckoned the extra cost (that I would be liable for) to fix
>>the "considerable body damage" would be around fifty bucks. We set a
>>date for it to go in.
>>
>>Ensign Dodge contract their body and paint work to a local Victoria
>>shop -- Craftsman Collision. I'd made a decision, that I would not
>>allow a Chrysler owned shop to do the work -- I simply didn't trust
>>them. So I checked out Craftsman a bit, and heard good things. I
>>agreed to the deal. The truck went in on April 17 and was ready a
>>week later. I paid a visit during the work, curious to see how they
>>were doing it, and was delighted to find they had removed every piece
>>of body trim except the windows to access the paint. They had even
>>removed the truck's box, so they could redo the paint on the back of
>>the cab and the front of the box.
>>
>>The truck looks fantastic -- as good as new. The paint is guaranteed
>>for as long as I continue to own the truck. I am an ultra happy
>>camper! Again, my share of the cost, to fix the "considerable
>>damage", was $50 plus tax.
>>
>>A few days after I got the truck back, I sent a letter off to Chrysler
>>Canada's lawyer, asking for a cheque for costs -- that is, what I'd
>>paid to launch the action in Small Claim's Court, the fee for the
>>company search, registered mail, and that sort of thing. Four weeks
>>went by, and I didn't hear from them. So I went back to small claims
>>court and asked to set a date for a hearing with a judge. By the end
>>of that week, the letter was there from their lawyer, agreeing to pay
>>court costs.
>>
>>I can't understand why Chrysler treats their clients this way. To be
>>fair to "Dale Carnegie", the service manager from Willie Dodge
>>Chrysler , he was probably trained to behave like the "butthead" he
>>was with me.
>>
>>I'm an ordinary working guy who laid out a very large pile of dough
>>for this truck six years ago. It has been a damn good truck -- the
>>best of perhaps six vehicles I've purchased brand new since 1970. But
>>during the year this altercation evolved, I swore I would never own
>>another Chrysler product in my life. I told a number of people in
>>great detail about what total jerks Chrysler were being, and I know
>>that I caused people to purchase vehicles made by other manufacturers,
>>due to the way I was being treated, and due to general information
>>(downloaded from the net) about Chrysler problems and tactics.
>>
>>Who are the "bad guys" in this story? First are the Chrysler
>>executives responsible for trying to "brow-beat" the owners of problem
>>vehicles into giving up on their claims. That is to say, telling them
>>there is nothing more that can be done, when in fact, there is plenty
>>that can be done. The next bad guy is the Service Manager from Willie
>>Dodge Chrysler . Thanks to his insulting, bumbling, incompetence,
>>this story has now been told all over the world via the internet. If
>>he had simply leveled with me, and negotiated in some way, at that
>>point I probably would have agreed to a 50/50 split for the work
>>(something I'd suggested during our meeting).
>>
>>So did my conscience bother me as I pushed the "send" button to post
>>this article? After all, Chrysler Canada paid for everything I asked
>>for -- the truck looks like the day it "rolled off the showroom
>>floor". A couple of strangers have spontaneously complimented me on
>>my "new truck". No, it didn't bother me a bit. They tried to cheat
>>me out of this paint-job, and they are actively cheating others across
>>North America out of theirs. Chrysler executives are bottom-feeders
>>in the corporate pool.
>>
>>Go after the bastards -- you'll probably win!
>>
>>Steve
>>Victoria, B.C.
>>
>>[You'll notice that my e-mail address above is
>>"nobody@pacificcoast.net" to avoid spammers. I'll respond by private
>>e-mail to anyone who posts a reply to this.]
>>
>
>
>
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