RE: Ronald: Help With Fuel Economy on 4.7L

From: Ronald Wong (ron-wong@home.com)
Date: Fri Mar 16 2001 - 14:16:54 EST


Hi Rich,

I don't think that retarding the timing curve would have hurt your mileage,
just your performance. The Bosch plugs will fit your 4.7. I don't know if
they're a direct cross since Bosch hasn't published that information yet.
People have used those plugs I mentioned in their 4.7's and according to the
feedback they seem to work quite well. If you really want to know the plugs
are listed for the 5.9 engine (yes, our Dak 5.9) and they don't work worth
beans in the 5.9. Maybe it's an error on their part. That is correct for
the pinging as long as it isn't a mechanical malfunction. As for the
inhalation side, there's also the TB to consider.

TTYL,
Ron
00 PB SLT QC 4X2 5.9 46RE 3.92 LSD
For modifications see my DML Profile (URL follows)
http://www.twistedbits.net/WWWProfile/dakota/Kw9pV1EkFeOYY

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
[mailto:owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET]On Behalf Of ZeRTified Cat
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 11:02 AM
To: dakota-truck-moderator@bent.twistedbits.net
Subject: DML: Ronald: Help With Fuel Economy on 4.7L

Thanks for all the help Ron. Just a few more questions if you will.

The Bosch plugs? Are they a direct cross according to Bosch? Have they
just not updated their page?

I read that some 4.7l engines didn't have a pinging problem with 87 octane,
unfortunatley they got the timing retarded with a generic flash that covers
all Dakota vehicles. So if I can restore the timing curve I can get my
mileage back? If it starts to ping I put in colder plugs and t-stat?

As for the exhaust, I alread have a K&N filter so I've covered that already,
although there is prolly something better out there.

Incidentally, I just got off a chat with a guy selling one of these magnet
things. Was trying to get an EPA report out of him. What a joke.

Thanks again for all your help.

Rich

""Ronald Wong"" <ron-wong@home.com> wrote in message
news:NDBBIHDGKKJOIJDEOCBMKEGBEBAA.ron-wong@home.com...
>
> 1. New plugs. I believe it was to a colder plug. What does that do for
> carbonization of the back sides of the valves? Checked www.boschusa.com
and
> they don't list a plug for the 2000 4.7l, maybe that's the reason people
are
> telling you not to put them in? On the other hand, NGK makes a direct
cross
> in a platinum. Maybe that's the way to go?
>
> Answer: The Bosch plugs for your vehicle are 4418 for platinum+4's and
4230
> for platinum's. A lot of DML'ers choose one step colder plug which would
> make them 4417 and 4229 respectively. This, again, is for pinging.
Cooler
> plugs dissipate more heat from the cylinder area thereby lessening
possible
> detonation problems.
>
> 2. Timing. What I've gathered from this and other forums is that the
4.7l
> can take more advance than the other models but the timing gets retarded
> because of a generic flash update that is common to all 2000 (01?)
Dakotas.
> The other motors are having more troubles with this than the 4.7l? So if
I
> can find a chip that advances the timing I'll get better economy but lose
a
> little bottom end grunt?
>
> Answer: I think it's the other way around. If you advance the timing
you'll
> need higher octane fuel. The higher the octane the harder it is to
ignite.
> You need this to prevent detonation. When you advance timing your spark
> gets there sooner. I can see you're trying to get the best of both worlds
> here which is really going to be difficult because of the type of vehicle
> you have chosen to purchase.
>
> 3. Cat back exhaust. So far the only product to make a specific claim of
> better mileage in thier ads. My concern is it also says 'more power'. In
> general you need X gallons of fuel to make X Hp. So if you make more
power
> one would think you'd burn more gas. In most computer controlled motors
> they adjust the air/fuel mixture so if you alter one side of the equastion
> by adding more air, won't the computer just compinsate by adding more
fuel?
> The only other explanation is that the exhaust improves on the efficiency
> (sp?) of the motor. Are these systems louder/noisier than stock?
>
> Answer: Efficiencies of the engine could give you mileage gains but if you
> think this one mod will make that big of difference think again. If you
> free up flow at one end, you need to free up flow at the other. There's
no
> point exhaling when you haven't inhaled. Most of these systems are quite
a
> bit louder than stock.
>
> 4. Synthetic fluids. I've seen a number of posts regarding this and I
> think that going to Mobil 1 is gonna be a given. Ran it in my old vehicle
> and loved it. I've seen posts saying not to run synthetic transmission
> fluid for one reason or another, something about the different types of
> synthetic. You gotta make sure you get the right one or you can cause
more
> damage then save. How about differential fluid? It seems to me that the
> diff fluid in my truck has the consistency of roofing tar. Sometimes I
can
> drive 5 or 6 miles before it locks up and the RPMs drop to normal,
> especially true in cold weather.
>
> I can't speak enough of synthetic fluids. They are a lot more slippery
than
> dino oil. No varnish build up. You can run the engine oil for 10K-20K
> miles with no change provided you change the filter at the normal
intervals
> (3K-5K miles) and you use a good filter (NO Fram!). Automatic
transmissions
> must have ATF+3 Type 7176 fluid. Synthetics that have these
specifications
> are Amsoil and Redline. Differential fluids are 75W90. I believe a lot
of
> DML'ers use Amsoil. Most people use Mobil 1 for the engine. It seems to
be
> the easiest to find. I use Castrol Syntec which I buy from Costco at a
> fairly good price. I haven't had any problems with it, though I believe
> there was some controversy way back when there was some dispute between
> Mobil and Castrol.
>
> 5. Thermostat. A number of people have suggested this. I'm really not
> sure what this will do for me. I guess it's feasable that a cooler
running
> motor means cooler cylinders and less likelyhood of ping. But I'm not
> having that problem. If I manage to get the timing advanced maybe I will?
> Comments are welcome on this one.
>
> Answer: This is another "running the engine cooler" mod. You'll not
realize
> any power gains. Will it help economy? Maybe a tad bit. Theory is your
> engine runs best at 183º coolant temperature. Therefore a change to a
180º
> t-stat is the best. For those that ping this is a definite change for the
> better. For your 4.7 engine changing it is a pain. I have a 5.9 and my
> timing's advanced. I run 92+ octane fuel but my t-stat is still a 195.
>
> 6. Snake oil. Read a few posts about fuel line magnets and fuel
catalysts
> but I really wonder what the deal is. I found a report on the EPA page
> about some of the products that were tested and proven to improve mileage
> but haven't been able to read the results from the individual test to see
> which one made the biggest change.
>
> Answer: You said it right! "Snake oil". Fuel catalysts? You mean stuff
> that can increase the octane? Some of those will but it's going to be
> expensive adding that every time you gas up.
>
> HTH,
> Ron
>
>
>
>



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