You summed up my thoughts nicely, Jeff. No fights here, that's certain.
-- Later, Jon jonsdak@midmaine.com http://jonsdakota.tripod.com 1996 Dodge Dakota Sport 4X4, 3.9L V6, 42RE, 3.92:1 8.25 axle, "BackRack" Headache Rack, Mopar slide-in bedliner, Dodge Motorsports decals, steering wheel cover, and front license plate, diamond-plate bedrail covers, Lund VentVisors, Lund BugShield, Jensen MP-3310 CD/MP3 Receiver, Pioneer TS-G1347's in front, TS-A5713's in rear ""Jeff Durling"" <jdurling@directvinternet.com> wrote in message news:003901c266a2$8583aed0$0201a8c0@Gate... > > Warning to everyone...... A very long post. Please forgive and understand. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Pukeloser@aol.com> > To: <dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net> > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: DML: More Diesel Stuff...attn. Jon, Ray, and Jeff > > > > > > You gota be careful when rating the miles you get out of > a diesel. Diesel > > engine progrressively lose power and torque as they age much worse than a > gas > > engine. > > Umm, ok?!? Not to start a flame or anything but that is completely contrary > to what I have ever learned about a diesel. Yes they age but usually thier > break in process is much longer (can be up to 60 or 70k) so usually they > start getting better mileage over the long run. I won two diesels now, one > is new and one has 30k on it. The one with 30 is still going up in mileage > as it gets more broke in. It's around 45 to 46 in the city and now it gets a > steady 52 on the hwy. > > They dont handle stop and start conditions as well either. > > My friend has a '95 Dodge ram with over 300k on it and never a rebuild. He > owns a lawn business and starts and stops all day long with a very large > double axle trailer so I don't think the start and stop is a problem here. > The weakness in his setup has never been the engine but the tranny had to be > rebuilt at 150k and again at 300k due to seriuos wear. The same for the rear > end. > > The cost > > of oil changes on a diesel is way higher than on gas. > > That is completly true but I think the far higher gas mileage that can be > got far offsets the oil change part. In the samll cars I have with diesel > it's runs about $30 for an oil change but that includes a new filter and > water seperator. More parts = higher cost. BTW, the same friend with the > trailer gets around 18mpg around town. Might not sound like much but put a > gas engine there and see what you get. > > And starting this > > October the government is placing all sorts of new emisions regulations on > > diesels that are going to cause probs for the next few years at least, > just > > remember how shitty gas engines were when they started emmisions > regulation > > back in 1974. Hell, it took them 20 years to get the gas design to a > reliable > > level. > > Again, you do make a valid point but you have to look at the full picture. > They are starting the higher standards due to the fact that they are getting > ready to switch over to the european grade of diesel which has far lower > sulfer and burns much cleaner. It will not be mandatory until 2006 but Cali. > has already started selling it and the oil companies are going to start > rolling it out over the next few years. It does cost a fraction more (oil > companies are saying 2Cent a gallon more) but it helps them since they can > now process a single fuel for the major world market instead of the > different blends. As for taking 20 years to get it right we'll you need to > check out europe. They sell between 45 & 48% cars as diesel due to higher > fuel costs so they had to make the engines quieter, less smelly, and better > performing to make the consumers happy. Remember, our county is probably the > biggest dead head when it comes to diesel but overseas, especially europe, > they build quite a few performance cars that are diesel. If you are reading > this and thinking that this has nothing to do with the american auto > builders realize that they have been selling thier own version of high-end > diesels overseas for a few years themselves. The biggest reasons these don't > come here is the crappy fuel that we have here and the fact the majority of > the public has a bad look at diesels. This is beginning to see a change but > it still will take time. > > Also, check into the cost of rebuilding a diesel (or for that matter > > getting performance parts). > > Performace parts on a diesel from what I have seen are not much worse than a > gas engine for a similar outcome. Sure they are somewhat more expensive for > certain items but it has more to do with low interest than the engine > itself. Again, look to europe where they are popular and the prices between > the two aftermarket parts followings are about the same. Yes, a diesel can > cost more to build, but agian this has to due with popularity not design. > The diesel engine is far simpilar than a gas engine in design so actual > rebuilding is a simpilar process. Here's food for thought. One reason people > assume diesel engines won't last long is due to modern diesels using a > turbocharger for a boost in power. We'll in a gas engine we all know that > even the best turbocharged engine will have to be rebuilt at no more than > say 150k (have no idea on actual but from what I have seen this is a good > estimate) but in a diesel the turbo last tremdously longer (in alot of cases > it's outlast the engine to the rebuild process) since the diesel doesn't > generate near as much heat to go through the turbo. Rpm spinning has an > effect too but add to that heat and there is the common cause of turbo > failure. As for the the length of time for rebuilding that over a larger > average a diesel engine generally last longer than a gas engine. I am not > saying the v^ magnum cannot last that long and I am not saying that the > diesel engine will last that long each and every time but just following a > little information over the years you'll find that the disel has a far > better chance of longer enfine life. Remember too that overall maintanence > is less costly of a diesel since there is no tuneup to do (with the > exception of adjustments in very old diesels). All you have to do is keep > the airfilter changed, oil changed along with filters, and replace glow > plugs at 100k and you've got it. > > My uncle Tony is Vice president of domestic > > engineering at Mack diesel so believe me I know the diesel engine has > major > > potential and can get great mileage (depending), but a gas engine that > is > > not abused and is properly maintained can easily get 300k (not including > > magnum V-6 timing chains). > > > > John S > > > > Look I am not here to bash you or start a war or anything but I do believe > in a good discussion and that's what I feel this is. Realize that the reason > a disel is used in so many industrial application from semi-truck to ship > engines to construction equipment is the general long life, simple to > maintain, and the general fuel mizing design of the engine. Does this mean I > have a beef with gas engines.....NO. I don't like the pollution factor, > which I will mention in a sec, but I love the rumble of a v8 (have a > beautiful classic restored restored '68 mustang) and the thrill of getting > on it. I just see the merits of diesels too that's all. If you think some of > waht i have to say is wrong some me be since I don't have hard facts to > back everything up other than what I have learned and seen over the years. > > As fro the pollution factor understna done thing about the epa report which > is now making everyone believe diesel is more dangerous than gas. First > right at the beginning of teh paper the epa clearly states that they need to > go back and evaluate this agian since the test subjects were mainly form the > eightes and early ninetees with some being from the late seventies. Modern > diesels do not smokes hardly at all (with the excception of industrial use > as defined above. The industrial engines themselves could be designed to not > smoke either except like the car engines they would incur serious internal > damage due to the high sulfer content in our fuel. Most of the black smoke > you see is soot which for the most part is harmless. In tests, again in > europe, it has been found that a modern diesle engine is more enviromentally > than a gas engine. Also think what type of mileage you would get from a > hybred if they used an extremely small diesel to replace the gas engine. Can > you say over 100mpg. I think it would easily be possible. > > So after this incredibly long post (longest I have ever done) you now have > my thoughts and opions on the diesel. Again, I am not blasting or flaming > anyone not am I trying to envoke a fight. I just feel that the staements I > read were correct to some degree but not the complete picture so I had to > defend something I believe in. I would have bought a Ram with the Cummins in > it excpet for three things. 1) I could figure what I would ever need a truck > that big for. 2) That being said I would still have bought something like it > anyway except for the lack of funds. To get a diesel in a Ram is not a cheap > proposition. I have other things to spend my money on (see classic car link > above). 3) This is the final and big one. Due to the problems I had with my > dak I was afriad of having to deal with the dealer network again. They > messed up my truck and they did not want to fix it. Understand the final > straw for me was 5 days before I got rid of it I had a very trusted mechanis > do a bore scope on all cylinders. They found that 6 had pitting in the top > of the pistons from running too lean and hot for so long. I showed these > nice sharp color photographs to the service manager and he said the same > exact thing when I showed him my blisted spark plugs 5 mos. before. "Yup > it's running too hot" I went to another dealer, called the customer care > line, and fought with the regional rep. Right now I have a lawsuit filed > with Chrysler to reclaim every penny I ever spent on the truck, including > payments, maint., and all lawyer and court costs. Of course it's been racked > up higher trying to get them to settle. I may or may not get anything but > this is my dissatisfaction and that's why I really didn't buy one. > > After all of this....Dak content. I still have my '96 dak that runs like a > bat outta hell..... > > Jon, please forgive the giant post and use of your bandwidth. > > Jeff Durling >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Jun 20 2003 - 12:05:25 EDT