I don't disagree with you about plumbers. My scoutmaster was a plumber and I
worked with him while going to school. Nothing unintelligent about him. I
will disagree with you about just as much elitism on the right, at least the
elitism is different.
On the right, a plumber is a business owner who is enterprising and
intelligent. Some may look down at the plumbers employees, but not the
owner. From my experience, business owners, with or without degrees, are
welcomed on the right.
The left welcomes the intellectual elite and the great unwashed masses who
need planning done by the elite in order to endure their meek existences.
I had it with the left and unions when I was working my way through college.
To keep my job, I had to join the union which collected dues from my
paycheck. I was told how bad management was and that if I went to college
and become management, I would be the enemy. Thing was I knew the management
personally and they were much better people than the union leaders.
I believe in free markets, the right to work and everyone goes as far as
their abilities and ambition takes them. Some will succeed, some will fail,
but to punish those who are more productive for being more productive is
more immoral than permitting people to fail.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter A Athens" <athynz@verizon.net>
To: <dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: DML: Made in China
>
> ~emerging from lurk mode~
>
> I have to agree with some of what you say here but this particular line
> strikes me as very elitist:
>
> "I have friends who are very intelligent and have advanced degrees and
> they
> think that its horrible and unfair as their much less intelligent plumber
> makes more than they."
>
> It this isn't elitism at its "finest" - who is to say exactly that this
> plumber is much less intelligent? Hell if I looked at it as let's spend a
> bit of money to learn a trade that is always in demand and have a
> willingness to do the dirty work and make even more than someone else who
> spent more money on college and graduate school to make less money, then
> that seem to be pretty smart to me. Spend less money now to earn more
> money
> later or spend more money now to earn less money later. Perhaps the
> advanced
> degrees blind them from common sense, hmmm?
>
> And just how is it unfair that the plumber makes more? Are they getting
> their hands dirty to fix the problem? Do they know how to? It seems to me
> that it's a supply and demand issue - they are demanding that the plumbing
> issue be fixed and if they are willing to pay the wages, the plumber is
> supplying his skills and materials to fix the issue. Which brings me to
> another point - the cost of materials has skyrocketed due to Bush's war...
> and the costs are passed on to the consumer.
>
> And this elitist attitude is not solely found on the left - there are just
> as many if not more on the right who feel the same exact way. You can't
> tell
> me that George W. Bush is a "man of the people" any more than Hillary
> Clinton is in touch with the common man.
>
> I don't see an issue with helping the third world, I just don't see
> helping
> them at the expense of our citizens which is what the corporations that
> have
> been outsourcing jobs have been doing - and their motivation is NOT to
> improve third world conditions or to educate the citizens of the third
> world
> to be more productive, their motivation is to train them just enough to do
> the jobs that are being outsourced and to pay a fraction of what they
> would
> pay a skilled or semi-skilled American worker to do the same. The
> motivation
> is greed and nothing but greed. Have the conditions of any third world
> country improved due to outsourcing?
>
> ~returning to lurk mode~
>
> athynz
> 2000 CC SLT 3.9L flame red/ light driftwood
> home made cold air intake
> all else stock
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 10:25:19 -0500
> From: "Tom Byrne" <kerib@ptd.net>
> Subject: Re: DML: Made in China
>
> Try what? Social capitalism found in Europe? That works well when they can
> export, but not so well when U.S. exports are competitive and U.S.
> consumer
> spending falls.
>
> Capitalist ideals did not stop in 1787, they have been built upon and
> refined using John Locke, David Codero et al as the basis for the
> evolution
> of capitalism. Capitalism has changed much in the past 300 years. It is
> best
>
> form yet right now.
>
> For years, the left derided corporations and capitalists for not helping
> he
> third world. Now that the third world is becoming the global manufacturing
> base and its standard of living is rising, they cry fouls as unskilled and
> semi-skilled U.S. workers suffer. You can't have it both ways, unless you
> have a centrally planned economy. The results of which is equal misery for
> everyone (except the ruling intellectual elite). Take a look at most left
> leaning organizations. They are led by those from elite academia and
> supported by those with barely adequate educations. This is like a master
> and a dog.
>
> The elite want to have the power to decide who gets thrown what scraps
> from
> the table and labor fights to be first in line for the scraps. I have
> friends who are very intelligent and have advanced degrees and they think
> that its horrible and unfair as their much less intelligent plumber makes
> more than they.
>
>
> That disrupts their hierarchy and makes them unnecessary. Do not doubt for
> a
>
> second that this is the attitude of the academic left.
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>
>
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