Thanks!
Steve P.
--- "Bernd D. Ratsch" <bernd@dodgetrucks.org> wrote:
>
> What a lot of folks aren't understanding - and to
> correct Ray....it's not
> the modification that's not working...it's the PCM
> programming. While the
> TB by itself will make a difference, once you hit
> the PCM's limit on
> "tuning" for the other modifications...bolting
> anything on will not gain you
> anything. There's only so much the PCM can
> compensate for with airflow
> (intake and exhaust modifications). What you have
> to do, and not just
> stating "it doesn't work", is look at the fuel
> adaptives (all 26 cells -
> STFT and LTFT). This will tell you where things are
> at and how much more
> the PCM can compensate for. There are also software
> limits which
> programmers can help with. Camshaft selection, head
> flow, intake flow,
> exhaust flow, fuel/timing, and O2 readings all come
> into play.
>
> So with that said - will a modified TB work on a
> basically stock engine -
> yes...and they've been proven over time to work.
> Start getting too in depth
> with the modifications (bolt-ons, etc) and you'll be
> heading off to the dyno
> and (hopefully) finding someone to custom flash your
> PCM.
>
> - Bernd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Barnes [mailto:rascal@scrtc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:19 AM
> To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> Subject: RE: DML: RE: RE: 4.7L V8 TB Spacer
>
>
>
> I have a superchip, a K&N, and a catback, but
> noticed nothing from the new
> tb, but it is nice and shiny so I left it on. I
> have no internal mods
> whatsoever.
>
> Rascal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net
> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@bent.twistedbits.net] On
> Behalf Of Ray Block
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:40 AM
> To: dakota-truck@dakota-truck.net
> Subject: RE: DML: RE: RE: 4.7L V8 TB Spacer
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kyle Kozubal
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > So you are saying that Hughges, F&B, BBK, and
> Fastman
> > (as well as other companies) are all selling
> products
> > that have no performance gains whatsoever?
>
> Did I say that? No....I believe I said "On an
> internally stock motor a
> larger throttle body doesn't make any difference."
> I will condition that
> with "if the stock throttle body is not a
> restriction". Now, on 4.7's,
> Chrysler increased the throttle body size in 2001 to
> 68 mm from the 65 mm
> used previously. Since mine is a 2000, I bought a
> stock 68 mm and indeed
> picked up a little performance at the track.
> Reasoning that even the 68 mm
> may be some restriction, I tried a ported 68 mm
> (about 3 mm larger than the
> stock one). Oops, sorry, no gain anywhere. Not
> at the track, not on the
> street. Then I got a Superchips controller that
> increased my shift points
> by almost 400 rpm. Reasoning again that perhaps the
> higher rpm may make
> better use of the larger throttle body, I tried it
> again. Nope, nothing.
> I'm back to the stock one now and run the identical
> times and speed I did
> with the larger one. I will keep it though in case
> I ever decide to do
> some internal engine mods.
>
> As for the four companies you mentioned, all make
> excellent products. All
> have their place in certain engine combinations.
> Just don't believe all the
> marketing hype. A larger throttle body eventually
> made an improvement on my
> Dak, but not until I had increased the engine's
> breathing capacity through
> cam, head and manifold changes along with 1000 rpm
> higher shift points.
>
> > I have a performance chip, K&N FIPK, and a
> Flowmaster
> > Exhaust...........all that I was hoping that a
> larger
> > aftermarket TB would nicely compliment.
> >
> > Kyle
>
> How did you measure the value of the products you
> already have? How would
> you know if a larger TB made an improvement?
>
> When "everybody says", or "Too many people have
> noticed", I would be asking
> how they tested it. What sort of controls were in
> place to isolate this
> change from everything else? (variables...like
> weather, driving style,
> brand and octane of gas, other changes?)
>
> I see a lot of folks buy the hot item of the day.
> In the process of bolting
> it on, they decide this might be a good time to
> change plugs, wires, cap &
> rotor, install a fresh air filter, change the oil
> and maybe put some air in
> those low tires. They go right out and hammer it
> and "wow", that (name the
> item) "really performs!" Then, if they also heard
> it should improve gas
> mileage, they drive like granny for a week and "wow,
> look how much that
> (name the item) increased my mileage!" And "all
> they did" was change that
> one item!
>
> Do you know that a change in the weather alone can
> alter your gas mileage by
> a couple mpg? It can also improve or hurt track
> performance by several car
> lengths in a quarter mile. Have you noticed that
> if your truck sounds
> louder, it seems faster? But is it? How would
> you evaluate that?
>
> Bottom line though, it's your money involved and if
> you choose to not
> believe me I won't be offended. Maybe someone else
> reading this will
> believe me and save their money.
>
> Ray
> 2000 Grand Cherokee 4.7 - 15.40 @ 85.70
> http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/20KM1FD2KWBP.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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