The charts were WOT runs for HP and TQ figures....but as I said, the A/F
was around 15.xx across the normal light throttle rpm band.
The factory O2 sensor is also replaced with the one included in the kit.
Snake-Oil?? Hehehe...explain the CARB EO# (minimum $10K for this), the
HP gains, and the performance gains?
(My parents used to tlel me this: "Don't knock it until you try it".)
- Bernd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net
[mailto:owner-dakota-truck@buffnet.net] On Behalf Of Shane Moseley
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:59 PM
To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
Subject: DML: Re: Hyper Speed Controller
That chart doesn't look like "light throttle acceleration" (not even
close). In fact, it looks like the majority of WOT dyno run charts that
I've seen. Only WOT (or at least heavy throttle accel) would explain
the lack of data points at or near the same MPH reading. How else could
you explain the greater than 100mph data points? Cruise conditions
imply at or near the same mph (or vacuum) readings.
Besides, I don't put alot of stock in dyno charts anyway. Your last
comment intrigues me tho. Especially due to the fact that I have NEVER
seen anything other than a near perfect 14.7:1 A/F on EVERY (late-model,
computer-controlled, modded or stock) vehicle I've tested. Your results
I have to question because every vehicle maker (producing vehicles made
to be used in most countries) is mandated by the federal governments to
come as close as possible to 14.7:1 A/F due to the catalytic converter
efficiency issue.
Almost all my tests were done with either a wide-band or a narrow-band
O2 sensor in the exhaust stream. The tests were conducted on the road
(cruise control on and set at around 55mph) over a 2+ hour period
datalogging the values using either a scan tool or data acquisition
equipment sampling at a rate of 200+ times per second. The 2+ hours
worth of data when averaged, yielded almost exactly 14.7:1 A/F EVERY
time. Since this agrees w/everything I have read (as well as the
federal mandate), it didn't raise any suspicion (like your data).
The basis of my initial post was about the validity of the "HyperSpeed
Controller" and its ability to change A/F ratio during cruise conditions
(not enrichment, or WOT modes) to some arbitrary value set by the user.
Considering that the factory's narrow-band O2 sensor is all but USELESS
when reporting ANYTHING other than richer or leaner than stoich (14:7:1
A/F), I stand by my assertion that it is "snake oil".
Study this document by the SAE (whom I base my assertion on). Pay
particular attention to the frequency response chart for the narrow-band
O2 sensor. By its very definition, data outside this "narrow band" of
response is virtually useless and in practice varies greatly from sensor
to sensor.
http://www.sts.sae.org/membersonly/techinfo/servicetech/oxygen13-17.pdf
Latr,
Shane
"Bernd D. Ratsch" wrote:
> Here's the A/F chart from a 2001 R/T (basically stock with minor
> bolt-ons).
>
> These were dyno runs performed on a brand new (3 month old) Dynojet.
>
> http://www.speedtweaks.net/images/2001RT.pdf
>
> Obviously, they were HP baseline runs (as you can see in the A/F
> readings), but the 15.x figures were normal during light throttle
> acceleration.
>
> I have yet to see a perfect 14.7:1 A/F on any vehicle.
>
> - Bernd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET] On Behalf Of Shane Moseley
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:06 AM
> To: dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> Subject: DML: Re: Hyper Speed Controller
>
> Again, all factory vehicles do indeed run at 14.7:1. This is a
> federal mandate. The narrow-band O2 sensors ONLY function is to
> indicate leaner or richer than the desired 14.7 to 1 ratio. Buy an
> A/F gauge and you can watch it visually. Catalytic converter
> functionality would be severely degraded if this were not the case.
> In fact, it would melt down also at least on the rich side of stoich.
>
> At WOT, mine runs between 12.0-12.7 per the factory calibration. This
> was verified w/a wide-band O2 sensor.
>
> Not doubting your results - just stating fact. Maybe its your test
> equipment - what you using? If dyno - whats their equipment? How old
> are their wide-band sensors? Have them do a free-air, or immerse in a
> stream of known gas like propane.
>
> Latr,
>
> Shane
>
> "Bernd D. Ratsch" wrote:
>
> > Actually Shane, the trucks I've tested don't run at 14.7:1...they
> > run at 15.1-15.3:1. Under WOT, it's not 12.5:1 either...more at
> > 13.2-13.4:1.
> >
> > - Bernd
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> > [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET] On Behalf Of Shane Moseley
> > Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 9:46 PM
> > To: dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> > Subject: DML: Re: Hyper Speed Controller
> >
> > One thing I don't understand - 14.7:1 under normal cruise is what
> > every factory vehicle's PCM is doing already. How is the HyperSpeed
> > controller supposed to help? Furthermore, the factory tunes WOT to
> > be
>
> > around 12.5:1 and is non-adjustable especially since the PCM is
> > ignoring the O2 sensor while in that mode of operation (WOT).
> >
> > Sounds like snake oil to me.
> >
> > Bernd, your own track results show a slower ET w/the HyperSpeed
> > controller in your before/after comparisons.
> >
> > Track Times:
> >
> > Before: 14.55 @ 96.01mph
> > After: 14.65 @ 97.02mph
> >
> > What gives?
> >
> > Latr,
> >
> > Shane
> >
> > "Bernd D. Ratsch" wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, it's for just about any vehicle with an O2 sensor (or
> > > two).
> > >
> > > It monitors the O2 signal (we'll use A/F for ease of
> > > understanding) and corrects it to 14.7:1 under normal cruise and
> > > 12.0:1 under WOT (WOT is adjustable +/-1.0).
> > >
> > > Again, the final product will be ready in 90 days (this is the one
> > > with the USB port).
> > >
> > > - Bernd
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> > > [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET] On Behalf Of Tim Althoff
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 10:01 PM
> > > To: dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> > > Subject: DML: RE: Hyper Speed Controller - Working and noticeably
> > > better already
> > >
> > > ok bernd...I need to take out a little stress (I am supposed to
> > > have
>
> > > my Computer science program done by Friday at 5pm and have almost
> > > nothing...I NEED TO BUY SOME NEW TOYS!!!
> > >
> > > is this for highly modded or could I get some results from my
> > > lightly modded 3.9. (cold air, TB, ignition, exhaust, 180*,
> > > modified intake, locker...soon to be 3.90 gears, elec fan, pulley.
> > > How do you adjust it? I know laptop but how adjustable is it?
> > >
> > > most importantly what cost going to look like? thanks
> > >
> > > Tim Althoff
> > > 99 RC Dak w/ V6 5-speed
> > > http://go.to/yllwdkta
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET
> > > [mailto:owner-dakota-truck@BUFFNET.NET]On Behalf Of Bernd D.
> > > Ratsch
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 4:26 PM
> > > To: Dakotart@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: DML: HyperSpeed Controller - Working and noticeably
better
> > > already
> > >
> > > Yup...the HyperSpeed Controller (Proto-Type Rev-II) is installed
> > > and
>
> > > functioning as claimed. Much better throttle response, no overly
> > > rich
> >
> > > (or lean) smell from the tailpipe (home-brew A/F meter...aka:
> > > nose),
>
> > > and the kicker is the lean spot caused by the supercharger at 1-2#
> > > boost under 1/2-3/4 throttle...it's not there anymore.
> > >
> > > It took about 50 miles for the PCM to relearn the new (corrected)
> > > settings from the HyperSpeed controller (reset the PCM after the
> > > initial
> > > installation) and adjusted the high-end enrichment a little bit
> > > (will need to put back to normal in about 50 more miles or so).
> > >
> > > The final box will be released in 90 days with a USB port,
> > > completely sealed box (for under the hood installation), and
> > > software for your laptop. This will allow the end user to
> > > fine-tune
>
> > > the fuel curve (across the RPM band in small increment as
> > > well)...this means programmable and automatic. Yes..you can
> > > adjust on the fly (while driving).
> > >
> > > I put some pictures of the Proto-Type installation on the
> > > SpeedTweaks website (Engine Controls/HyperSpeed) but keep in mind
> > > that the final controller will be Plug and Play with your factory
> > > O2
>
> > > sensor(s). Yes...it replaces your stock (forward) O2 sensor(s).
> > > With all this said, it's also 100% SMOG LEGAL (CARB EO#).
> > >
> > > I'll be heading to the Dyno shop this Friday to get some HP and TQ
> > > readings, but the butt-dyno already noticed the change...nothing
> > > else was installed in the mean time.
> > >
> > > - Bernd
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Jun 20 2003 - 12:03:52 EDT