Steven, Wow, I agree ! One thing though, The 4.7L TB already flows about
600-650 cfm, that is more than adequate for 287 cubes. I would prioritize
the PCM and cams before the TB, You are right, the TB mods will gain almost
nothing, there is very little room to "bore" the 4.7L TB. As you said,
"chasing the last couple of CFM out of your throttlebody" for all that money
is nothing more than "I have a 500 dollar TB". The first thing to do for HP
is the air intake, The cat back exhaust are not going to give you much (2-5
hp), unless you go with a highly modded system from headers to Y-pipe to
cats, complete deal, you will see some notable power increase. after the
intake, go for the PCM, this will give you atleast 15-20 hp. Next would the
cams. The specs on the factory cam leave alot on the table. After the cams,
go back to the exhaust (complete custom system) from headers to tailpipe.
The usual 180 tstat, Synthetic fluid, and plugs would also apply along the
way. After the exhaust, I'd go with the Jet Perf. underdrive pulleys.
after these mods, you start getting into major bucks, some with minimal
gains: TB, custom lower intake( multiple TB's ?), ,custom ported heads,
ignition system, SC'r.
I have followed this order so far:
1. Synthetic Oil/lube, plugs ($50) Done
2. Air intake ($75) Done
3. Cat back Exhaust ($175)
At this point I'm around 250 hp (210 @ RW)
4. Custom PCM ($400) Next Week
5. 180 t stat ($5) Next Week
After the PCM and t-stat should be around 265 HP
Future mods
6. Custom ground cams (???)
7. Headers, Cats, complete the system
8. Clutch work
9. Underdrive pulleys
10. TB
11. Ignition system upgrade
The chassis mods would have to come under a different table (Slicks, shocks,
Caltracs, traction bars, ect.ect.)
__________________________________
Matt--VA--Y2K-HEMI `00 Sport Plus RC
4.7L 5spd. 9 1/4 3.92 LSD, Homemade air intake,
T-Bars, Spring clamps, Mobil 1,Hoosiers
3" Flowmaster cat-back,14.48 @ 92.40 MPH
209.9 RWHP/285 RWTQ
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-----Original Message Follows -----
From: Steven T. Ekstrand [mailto:cyberlaw@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 2:09 AM
To: dakota-truck@buffnet.net
Subject: Re: DML: Throttle Bodies-Response to Bernd
You really missed my point Bernd. I'm not criticizing spending money on
serious mods for a street vehicle. I am criticizing taking any single item
to the nth degree. All too often I see people max out one or two things
then leave a great deal of there vehicle factory stock. Usually because it
easier to bolt on a "magic" TB than do something more cost effective (HP/$
spent) like say a cam change.
<<<clip>>>
The only reason I "brag" in this manner is to let everybody here know that
I understand the cost, time, and work necessary to get one more 1/100 of a
second. And there is no reason to be doing it to any street vehicle, I've
ever experienced. And I've seen some nasty street vehicles. My real point
is DON'T START CHASING HUNDREDTHS TILL YOU'VE EXHAUSTED THE TENTHS!!! And
guess what!!! The first tenths cost far far less than the last hundredths.
We don't have good comparison numbers on throttle bodies so its a little
bit of a shot in the dark. But Jules' top of the line stuff reaches a
price level where I cannot justify it from any rational standpoint. I
would offer two explanations.
1. Ignorance. Its rampant!
2. Conspicuous Consumption. That is to say you gained some satisfaction
just by the fact that your TB cost more! Talk about your Placebo effects!
Now let's talk upgrades that make sense. I'm going to have to make up some
numbers to make my point so please forgive me as I pull these out of thin
air. If a $300 TB modification offers a strong improvement over stock and
flows say 95% of a $1200 unit, then you can get a lot more performance out
of your extra $900 spending them on something other than chasing the last
couple of CFM out of your throttlebody.
The $300 is going to take care of the good majority of your bottleneck.
Now its time to move on and look into something else. I have a 4.7. The
first thing to mod is obviously exhaust flow and air intake. Then throttle
body. The next big items would be cam profile and a custom computer flash.
If you've got an automatic you've got to focus some energy there on some
custom work. If you have an open differential, then I don't even know why
you've read this far. If you have a manual and you interested in big mods
you'll be replacing your clutch soon enough. I wouldn't be going with a
stock unit.
If I supercharge the 4.7, port the heads, change the cam, run headers
through a custom Y, smooth out the intake manifold,have a custom computer
flash done, and sort the drivetrain then maybe its time to go back and
consider if my lowly $300 of TB work is adequate. My guess is that an
extra $900 in mods isn't going to change much. I would probably be looking
for wholesale substitutes. Truth is, if I had so much money that was
willing to cough up $900 in additional TB mods, I would probably be more
inclined to go have a custom intake done with provisions for two stock
TB's.
<<<<Clip>>>>
for little people like me that won't spend $900 on 2 CFM for a
lowly street vehicle.
-Steve Ekstrand
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